Live data from Hacker News

Untitled topic

news.ycombinator.com

61–70 of 133 posts

Re: undefined

#61
post #46

It's curious that Samsung's lawyers didn't manage to bring about the invalidation during trial, if its lack of validity was evident enough that the patent office is now retracting it. I'm curious if a) Samsung did present the evidence that the patent office relied on to invalidate but it was rejected by the jury or b) Samsung wasn't allowed to present it for some reason or c) Samsung didn't try to present it Option a…

Are you sure that pinch to zoom was one of the issues for the Samsung suit? All I recall is the "rebound effect" when you reach the end of a page, and the physical design of the galaxy tab

Re: undefined

#62

As a result of this decision, could the holders of these prior touch-screen patents now sue Apple for infringement? By the way, the "Hillis" in the Hillis patent[1] (filed in 2005) is none other than W. Daniel (Danny) Hillis[2], the founder of Thinking Machines. [1] Patent 7,724,242: http://www.google.com/patents/US7724242?dq=7724242 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Daniel_Hillis

I imagine there's plenty of prior art supporting invalidating the Hillis patent, if it came to that.

For example, 1997: http://tangible.media.mit.edu/project/metadesk/

1:30 in the video seems to show the behavior described.

Re: undefined

#63
post #46

It's curious that Samsung's lawyers didn't manage to bring about the invalidation during trial, if its lack of validity was evident enough that the patent office is now retracting it. I'm curious if a) Samsung did present the evidence that the patent office relied on to invalidate but it was rejected by the jury or b) Samsung wasn't allowed to present it for some reason or c) Samsung didn't try to present it Option a…

The law imposes different burdens of proof for invalidating a patent in court, versus in a USPTO reexamination proceeding.

In court, a party asserting that a patent is invalid must prove invalidity by "clear and convincing evidence," which is the highest standard of proof in U.S. civil law (that is, non-criminal law).

In contrast, suppose that the USPTO decides that a "substantial new question of patentability" exists and therefore initiates a reexamination proceeding. In that situation, the patent examiner need only show invalidity by "a preponderance of the evidence," which is colloquially summarized as 50.000001%, just enough to tip the balance of probability. It's also commonly phrased as "more likely than not."

(EDIT: Strictly speaking, the burden of proof applies only to facts, not to the ultimate conclusion. Here, the facts --- namely what the Hillis and Nomura prior-art references say --- are are essentially beyond dispute, although I suppose conceivably Apple might find some technical grounds to allege, as a matter of fact, that at the time in question, persons of ordinary skill supposedly would not have understood those references to mean A or B or C.)

Perhaps more importantly, in the court case, a non-expert judge and jury had to assess the prior art. In the USPTO reexamination proceeding, three experienced patent examiners did the assessment.

Re: undefined

#64
post #16

I don't even like pinch to zoom. It is hard/impossible to do when using the phone one handed. It is also annoying in apps like google's new maps for iOS because it is hard to not also rotate the map, which is hardly ever the desired outcome.

>>It is hard/impossible to do when using the phone one handed.

This is why there are other methods to zoom, such as double-tapping with a finger (i.e. thumb).

Re: undefined

#65
post #10

I've been thinking lately that with the number of patents in existence, the likelihood that a newly submit patent application is truly novel without any invalidating prior art is probably very low. The USPTO should start each review under the premis that the application will probably be denied unless the application includes sufficient justification for it being truly novel. If the USPTO started denying the majority…

Except it's impossible to prove the absence of prior art, while proving the existence of it is pretty easy.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#67
post #10

I've been thinking lately that with the number of patents in existence, the likelihood that a newly submit patent application is truly novel without any invalidating prior art is probably very low. The USPTO should start each review under the premis that the application will probably be denied unless the application includes sufficient justification for it being truly novel. If the USPTO started denying the majority…

Some have argued that anyone applying for a patent should be required to have a prior-art search done and submit it to the patent examiner, just as a PhD candidate must do a literature survey as part of his (or her) dissertation work.

Re: undefined

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hoping it's a sign of change within the Patent Office. If this becomes a regular occurrence I'll be extremely happy.

This isn't something that was initiated within the patent office. An external attorney filed a reexamination request, paid for it (thousands in fees), and included literally hundreds of pages of explanation as to why the patent should be struck down, with references to hundreds of pages of prior art. From that, it is much easier for an examiner to determine whether the patent should be struck down. This is not someth…

> This is not something that a patent examiner has the tools, training, and, most importantly, time to do on initial application.

... which then begs the question: If the USPTO cannot do adequate research for granting a valid patent, then why are they granting patents?

Re: undefined

#69
post #10

I've been thinking lately that with the number of patents in existence, the likelihood that a newly submit patent application is truly novel without any invalidating prior art is probably very low. The USPTO should start each review under the premis that the application will probably be denied unless the application includes sufficient justification for it being truly novel. If the USPTO started denying the majority…

"I've been thinking lately that with the number of patents in existence, the likelihood that a newly submit patent application is truly novel without any invalidating prior art is probably very low."

A great scifi short story that examines this eventuality in the context of art & perpetual copyright : Melancholy Elephants, by Spider Robinson. http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm

Re: undefined

#70
post #55
post #16

I don't even like pinch to zoom. It is hard/impossible to do when using the phone one handed. It is also annoying in apps like google's new maps for iOS because it is hard to not also rotate the map, which is hardly ever the desired outcome.

After finally using Google's new maps for IOS last night (to actually find a destination I was trying to get to, as opposed to just playing around with the app), I'm really liking the ability to control zoom with a double-tap-drag. Its especially nice being able to quickly zoom out then back in with just one gesture, so you can figure out where you are within the larger map.

Wow, is indeed very good. Thank you. Where do you find out about gestures like this? I can't help but wonder what other gestures are secretly lurking.
Post reply on HN