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I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

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Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#61

> I gave it the hardest real task that fits on one machine: reverse-engineering a commercial app's license check... Respectfully, tasks that allow for explicit straightforward true/false or done/not-done tests are not the "hardest real task[s]." In fact, those are the ones that see the most gains from AI-assisted coding. Testable tasks are where the largest opportunity is.

Maybe so, but there were other elements that I've seen frontier models struggle with in the past, which was the perspective I had coming into this. It's the type of test I run frequently and this is the first small local model I've seen pull it off.

It had a very non-standard RSA key implementation that was obfuscated heavily. As well, it has an online license check at first run, and that part typically trips up most of the local models I've tried. I've been running this test for about a year now with different models, and it was the first I've seen not only figure out the RSA key implementation, but the first that didn't just give up once it saw the online license check. Even though it's only a first-time launch check.

That's why I call it one of the hardest, because in my experience, it has been. It's the first local model I've seen pull it off end-to-end. For some of the reverse engineering work that I've done with LLMs, none have been as consistent as this particular test at highlighting a model's failure in this domain.

I have access to Daybreak Blue and I'm approved for Anthropic's Cybersecurity program, so I might run the same test with both of those just to see, because it's been a while since I used a frontier model on this test. I imagine they'll make relatively light work of it, though, assuming it doesn't trip the relaxed guardrails.

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#62

> I gave it the hardest real task that fits on one machine: reverse-engineering a commercial app's license check... Respectfully, tasks that allow for explicit straightforward true/false or done/not-done tests are not the "hardest real task[s]." In fact, those are the ones that see the most gains from AI-assisted coding. Testable tasks are where the largest opportunity is.

Which is exactly why we saw 1000s of ' "I" rewrote in rust' posts last year when agentic coding really took off. Agents (even ones powered by small models) do reasonably well when provided an oracle to work against.

I've included docs and tests as part of my vibe coding endevours. It doesn't matter if either is litterally correct, but they create guardrails for future context to prevent regresssions and blind avenues, etc.

It's fairly successful but hits the time constrains and reduces the "value" of getting a local model to develop software.

It's still a bump in productivity.

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we'll burn that bridge when we get to it!

More seriously though, I think we should be fine: we don't host any content, and what people do with the models is their own responsibility (legally speaking, in our jurisdiction, at least according to Claude -- we're talking to a real lawyer next week). Like any other provider, we offer no guarantees of sane, safe, or accurate results.

>legally speaking, in our jurisdiction, at least according to Claude -- we're talking to a real lawyer next week

That's going to be fun lol

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#66
post #56

> The first attempt at recovering the key was wrong in a very specific way; it produced a working key and the signature check passed, but a hash the binary computes as an integrity check didn't match. In my experience, most models would have called it done and left it at that, but Qwen 3.8 27B didn't do that. Instead, it highlighted the mismatch, went back to the drawing board, and kept going until the value matched…

Yeah, about a year ago the labs figured out that effective intelligence is a function of persistence as much as anything else. So the models started getting scary persistent late last year, and the trend has continued. There was another jump a few months ago.

they realized the paperclip maximizer and the grey goo are _not the torment nexus_, but reliable patterns of discovery!

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#67

> I gave it the hardest real task that fits on one machine: reverse-engineering a commercial app's license check... Respectfully, tasks that allow for explicit straightforward true/false or done/not-done tests are not the "hardest real task[s]." In fact, those are the ones that see the most gains from AI-assisted coding. Testable tasks are where the largest opportunity is.

Maybe so, but there were other elements that I've seen frontier models struggle with in the past, which was the perspective I had coming into this. It's the type of test I run frequently and this is the first small local model I've seen pull it off. It had a very non-standard RSA key implementation that was obfuscated heavily. As well, it has an online license check at first run, and that part typically trips up most…

[deleted]

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely coincidentally, we're just about to launch a service that does exactly this (API access to uncensored open models)! We have a waitlist at the moment but will be live very soon! https://violentdelights.ai

Given the context, your domain name is 'chefs kiss', perfect. I am completely curious what your legal defense would be though. "Come do things with AI that are probably illegal!" What?! We had no idea people would do things that are illegal!

What can a LLM generate that's illegal in the USA? Specifically a text-only LLM?

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#69
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes this build different is the word before FP8: uncensored. We applied abliteration — orthogonalizing the refusal direction out of the residual stream — to remove the model's safety-alignment refusals. The result is a model that will comply with requests the original would refuse. Surely this has unintended side effects on output quality?

> > What makes this build different is the word before FP8: uncensored. We applied abliteration — orthogonalizing the refusal direction out of the residual stream — to remove the model's safety-alignment refusals. The result is a model that will comply with requests the original would refuse. > Surely this has unintended side effects on output quality? Can you help me understand why that's the case?

Because deleting model weights after training is likely to cause knock-on effects in model knowledge and/or behavior. Targetting it might mitigate this but it’s

a) not guaranteed that only censor-ey parameters get removed, and b) likely that removing those parameters still has effects on the effectiveness of related parameters.

Re: I gave Qwen 3.8 27B a reverse-engineering job and it finished in 30 minutes

#70

> I gave it the hardest real task that fits on one machine: reverse-engineering a commercial app's license check... Respectfully, tasks that allow for explicit straightforward true/false or done/not-done tests are not the "hardest real task[s]." In fact, those are the ones that see the most gains from AI-assisted coding. Testable tasks are where the largest opportunity is.

I guess the Riemann Hypothesis is an easy task then.
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