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New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

newbedfordlight.org

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Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#61

Post by veec_cas_tant »

Walf wrote: post #58
veec_cas_tant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I feel stalked and harassed by the cameras though? I didn’t feel bothered at all by cameras in NYC. I didn’t feel bothered in Singapore. I drove about 12 hours over the last couple of days and didn’t feel bothered by the numerous cameras along the interstate. I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human for sure, but cameras give me no reaction honestly. Is it the AI? If so, why does it…

Perhaps you'll feel differently if you, or someone you care about, happen to be one of the lucky future misidentifications.

Certainly would be upset, just like if I were misidentified by a human reading the plate number? Of course, I don’t see how it’s relevant though. I would expect at least some human review at some level, for sure!

On the other hand, I have experienced a violent mugging on my street where neither my camera, nor any of my neighbors cameras, worked well enough in low light to identify the plates at all. Car pulled up, passenger jumped out and attacked two older ladies. There are plenty of cases just like this, where video evidence is lacking and would make all of the difference, that I personally feel vastly outweigh potential plate reading issues.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#62

Post by Walf »

veec_cas_tant wrote: post #61
Walf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you'll feel differently if you, or someone you care about, happen to be one of the lucky future misidentifications.

Certainly would be upset, just like if I were misidentified by a human reading the plate number? Of course, I don’t see how it’s relevant though. I would expect at least some human review at some level, for sure! On the other hand, I have experienced a violent mugging on my street where neither my camera, nor any of my neighbors cameras, worked well enough in low light to identify the plates at all. Car pulled up, pa…

I think that's conflation. Having high visibility of an area so that cameras can be consulted for evidence can be, as you attest, a good thing. Being tracked over an indeterminate length of time, profiled, and maybe one day punished for thoughtcrime, is a very different beast.

And if you think thoughtcrime is far-fetched or paranoid, you aren't paying attention. Governments around the world are moving to crush dissent by limiting gatherings for protest, labelling/charging people as terrorists without having committed any terrorist acts, etc. What makes you think anyone will ever be able to organise against oppression, even if the cause is just, when one is treated as guilty without committing any crime?

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#63

Post by unclebucknasty »

veec_cas_tant wrote: post #54
Walf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. If you were in public, going about your business, but someone followed you around perpetually, noting down everything you did, you should feel stalked and harassed. That is exactly what these machines are doing. Being in public means that you're not hiding any one part of your behaviour, but nor are you telling everyone where you've been and where you're going, etc.

Why should I feel stalked and harassed by the cameras though? I didn’t feel bothered at all by cameras in NYC. I didn’t feel bothered in Singapore. I drove about 12 hours over the last couple of days and didn’t feel bothered by the numerous cameras along the interstate. I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human for sure, but cameras give me no reaction honestly. Is it the AI? If so, why does it…

>I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human

Why would this bother you? Because of the prospect of physical harm, or the idea that they are watching you/invading your privacy?

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#64

Post by petterroea »

infinite_spin wrote: post #44

At this point I think it's necessary to notify anyone who has been tracked after a fixed number of days, unless a court order is used to extend that period. An officer using this for legitimate reasons should have few problems getting that court order. This would at least give people some amount of safety net from stalking by LE.

It's not that I disagree, but police looking up protestors license plates in order to trigger a "law enforcement looked you up" email is one hell of an intimidation tactic

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#65

Post by veec_cas_tant »

Walf wrote: post #62
veec_cas_tant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly would be upset, just like if I were misidentified by a human reading the plate number? Of course, I don’t see how it’s relevant though. I would expect at least some human review at some level, for sure! On the other hand, I have experienced a violent mugging on my street where neither my camera, nor any of my neighbors cameras, worked well enough in low light to identify the plates at all. Car pulled up, pa…

I think that's conflation. Having high visibility of an area so that cameras can be consulted for evidence can be, as you attest, a good thing. Being tracked over an indeterminate length of time, profiled, and maybe one day punished for thoughtcrime, is a very different beast. And if you think thoughtcrime is far-fetched or paranoid, you aren't paying attention. Governments around the world are moving to crush dissen…

Absolutely against using any sort of law enforcement powers for those purposes. I am against thought crime and support all sorts of wide ranging freedoms. We just disagree on if the possibility for misuse outweighs very real and powerful uses.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#66

Post by goosejuice »

sixothree wrote: post #32
none2585 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one important cares and no one will do anything about it.

Celebrities get special treatment in hospitals built into pretty much all EHR software. Names are obfuscated, while searches and views get instantly flagged. I highly suspect the same thing exists here.

That's to protect the hospital. Inappropriate access to any medical record covered by HIPAA carries the same weight, it's just less of a legal shit show and less tempting for employees when they aren't rich powerful or famous.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#67

Post by infinite_spin »

petterroea wrote: post #64
infinite_spin wrote: post #44

At this point I think it's necessary to notify anyone who has been tracked after a fixed number of days, unless a court order is used to extend that period. An officer using this for legitimate reasons should have few problems getting that court order. This would at least give people some amount of safety net from stalking by LE.

It's not that I disagree, but police looking up protestors license plates in order to trigger a "law enforcement looked you up" email is one hell of an intimidation tactic

Welp, glad I posted this, because that's an extremely good point. Will have to think about this more. It kind of reminds me of how the reddit self harm notification system was abused. Maybe it can be an opt in type of system, or even based on some threshold. I wonder though, if I were a protestor, and that lookup happened more some expected number of times, it could be important to know.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#68

Post by eptcyka »

infinite_spin wrote: post #51
jauer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this or similar accountability measures is where we'll need to end up with this kind of technology. It's too useful for catching vehicle theft rings and similar kinds of highly disruptive criminal networks to abandon the technology entirely. LOVEINT has been a thing for as long as electronic surveillance has existed. We fire and/or prosecute people for it. We didn't turn out back on those capabilities. I'd li…

Fair point, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, however I am fearful of a surveillance state. These trust issues seem to be stacking up, so I think statutory transparency is necessary.

With Flock, we can and absolutely should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Good riddance for that demonic little pest.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#69

Post by vips7L »

sublinear wrote: post #15
vips7L wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wonder how quick this will get removed off the front page YC’s an investor after all

That's not why these are getting flagged. The tech angle is very weak otherwise too similar to the ordinary news. It's not that we don't care or even disagree. I'm not saying this to stir an argument either. I'm just giving an honest answer why the rest of us ordinary folk flag these. They go into the same bin as most of the AI posts. As well, I can't speak for everyone, but the pushback replies to my comment here (i…

ANY push back is bots? Yeah this is boot-licker bullshit.

Re: New Bedford police officer accused of using Flock cameras to track ex-partner

#70

Post by veec_cas_tant »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #63
veec_cas_tant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I feel stalked and harassed by the cameras though? I didn’t feel bothered at all by cameras in NYC. I didn’t feel bothered in Singapore. I drove about 12 hours over the last couple of days and didn’t feel bothered by the numerous cameras along the interstate. I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human for sure, but cameras give me no reaction honestly. Is it the AI? If so, why does it…

> I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human Why would this bother you? Because of the prospect of physical harm, or the idea that they are watching you/invading your privacy?

Mostly due to the antisocial behavior described. I would not feel at all worried if someone walking on the same sidewalk as me was recording their child with me in the frame. Someone following me and jotting down notes is very strange behavior, at least for someone like me without celebrity.

Stripping this down a bit: would I be fine with a very friendly camera crew documenting everything I do outside in public? No, I wouldn’t like that for privacy reasons. I also wouldn’t like government cameras publicly searchable, and wouldn’t like my phone location publicly searchable, but do not mind law enforcement having access when necessary. It’s a good thought experiment though, and maybe exposes hypocrisy in my view? Not entirely sure.

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