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Ethical Cold Outreach

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Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#61

Post by card_zero »

gigatree wrote: post #51
kerkeslager wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Finally you get it! Not once in my entire 40 years on this planet has a single ad or cold outreach been welcome. Every single one is full of lies and partial information that is vastly inferior to me going out and researching products that I want. I don't care what you think I'll be interested in. I might be, but you're too biased for me to trust you to give me reliable information about the product. Leave me al…

That’s fine for you but if you’re extrapolating that to everyone then… well you’re wrong. Otherwise people wouldn’t still be doing it. Otherwise you’re just stating your preferences to internet strangers who have no idea who you are. What else don’t you like, pineapple on pizza?

If you're saying "every single one is full of lies and partial information" is false because people are successful with it, that doesn't follow.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#62

Post by inigyou »

anticorporate wrote: post #27
georgel wrote: post #23

The comments on cold outreach on HN are always going to be negative. I assume the majority of us here are developers and go to insane lengths to block "spammers". That said, even YC (can't find the exact Dalton + Michael episode) encourages cold outreach. If it didn't work, people wouldn't still be doing it.

> If it didn't work, people wouldn't still be doing it. The same can be said for all sorts of activities, from the illegal and unethical to the mundane. Although, to be fair, you're right. Which is why I actively make it my goal to make doing cold sales outreach more costly to the companies doing it than if they had done nothing at all. A BDR cold emailing me is a pretty good way to make sure your software does not g…

Ah, you're one of those people who swears they don't buy anything they see on a billboard.

Guess what, you only know the one that was on the billboard so if you need the product, you'll buy that brand. Happens every time.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#63

Post by inigyou »

gigatree wrote: post #54
georgel wrote: post #23

The comments on cold outreach on HN are always going to be negative. I assume the majority of us here are developers and go to insane lengths to block "spammers". That said, even YC (can't find the exact Dalton + Michael episode) encourages cold outreach. If it didn't work, people wouldn't still be doing it.

Yeah, wish I’d ignored them sooner. “Spammers” don’t care if they bother people with offers that have no potential to benefit them. But actual entrepreneurs wanting to serve people with their products need to know that cold outreach is essential to get off the ground, and that they should fiercely ignore the people that call it spamming.

It's just the same thing viewed from two perspectives. For the sender, it's cold outreach - even when it's about some Viagra clone. For the receiver, it's spam - even when it's about AGI for $5.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#64

Post by anticorporate »

inigyou wrote: post #62
anticorporate wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it didn't work, people wouldn't still be doing it. The same can be said for all sorts of activities, from the illegal and unethical to the mundane. Although, to be fair, you're right. Which is why I actively make it my goal to make doing cold sales outreach more costly to the companies doing it than if they had done nothing at all. A BDR cold emailing me is a pretty good way to make sure your software does not g…

Ah, you're one of those people who swears they don't buy anything they see on a billboard. Guess what, you only know the one that was on the billboard so if you need the product, you'll buy that brand. Happens every time.

What on earth are you talking about? Billboards are mostly illegal in my county, as they should be. But even if they weren't, this still isn't true. Most of my career, one of my primary jobs has been product selection. That part of your brain just doesn't turn off. I know it's hard to fathom, but I probably haven't made an impulse purchase in years, and 95% of the consumer goods we buy are from the retailer I work for. We base purchasing on attributes, period, and being pretty strict on things like no HFCS or artificial preservatives means very few national brands even make it through the sieve.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#66

Post by account42 »

georgel wrote: post #23

The comments on cold outreach on HN are always going to be negative. I assume the majority of us here are developers and go to insane lengths to block "spammers". That said, even YC (can't find the exact Dalton + Michael episode) encourages cold outreach. If it didn't work, people wouldn't still be doing it.

Stealing is also an effective way to enrich yourself, otherwise criminals wouldn't still be doing it.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#67

Post by account42 »

ElProlactin wrote: post #32
dgellow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do breach laws, yes. I don’t understand your point

The point is that Germany saying "you can't contact someone by email unless they want you to" is practically unenforceable in the real world. So it's pointless.

It's hardly pointless since local companies are more likely to profit from spamming because there is an inherently wider range of things they could sell you - so even just getting rid of them helps.

But that also doesn't really matter to this discussion - the law existing provides evidence that not wanting to receive unsolicited corporate communication is not a fringe opinion.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#68

Post by account42 »

gigatree wrote: post #51
kerkeslager wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Finally you get it! Not once in my entire 40 years on this planet has a single ad or cold outreach been welcome. Every single one is full of lies and partial information that is vastly inferior to me going out and researching products that I want. I don't care what you think I'll be interested in. I might be, but you're too biased for me to trust you to give me reliable information about the product. Leave me al…

That’s fine for you but if you’re extrapolating that to everyone then… well you’re wrong. Otherwise people wouldn’t still be doing it. Otherwise you’re just stating your preferences to internet strangers who have no idea who you are. What else don’t you like, pineapple on pizza?

People are generally against others stealing from them but yet there are still people who steal.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#69

Post by account42 »

warkdarrior wrote: post #29
nemomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if I'm interested in going out and getting something I look it up on my own time? Just don't tell me about it.

Congratulations, you just confirmed the need for SEO in all its forms.

Just because you can think out of alternative abuse that sleazy actors can resort to doesn't mean that we should accept the abuse under discussion.

Re: Ethical Cold Outreach

#70

Post by dgellow »

ElProlactin wrote: post #46
dgellow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s regularly enforced… are your local laws pointless because other countries aren’t concerned? Is free speech in the US pointless because North Korea or China doesn’t respect it?

Regularly enforced against who? Let's say some company or "entrepreneur" sitting in an office in Palo Alto or in his house in the Philippines wants to sell a SaaS app they vibe coded in a week. They use AI to create a marketing email and list of targets. They blast it out and it lands in the inbox of some dude in Germany. Do you really think the company or individual is going to ever face any consequences for sending…

If they ever want to have a presence in Germany, yes
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