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Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

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Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#61

Post by bonesss »

gfrecvh wrote: post #33
jillesvangurp wrote: post #29

Some countries have really high housing prices and housing scarcity right on a border with another country where this isn't the case. You can get 30-40% differences just by moving a few km on the borders of the Netherlands. The reason this isn't that popular is that by moving like that you get to deal with different jurisdictions and tax systems. Particularly the social systems different countries have are very diffe…

> There's plenty of housing available if you can tolerate the inconvenience of a shitty commute. I would rather pay for the better location than pay for the larger house. The physical size of my home isn't a large factor in my quality of life. The length of my commute is. Now I was going to write "It's really weird to me this isn't a more mainstream view", but given the data we're looking at, seems this view is absol…

Longer commutes aren’t just about work, and that time in the car is not free. Kids, kids sports, kids social lives, and kids schooling can leave people trapped in their cars day in and day out trying to reconcile modern urban socialization expectations and the lower property prices they enjoy because of the minor impracticality.

In my specific area the housing price reduction of moving out of the city balances out quickly by the need for a car and/or a second car (our cheap tiny EV works fine for short commutes), particularly if you compare the relative interest rates. I imagine market forces make it so, the financial tradeoffs are reflected in the pricing.

Further: as the only available housing at a low price point collects in smaller towns the impact of borderline purchasers becomes more pronounced. As neighbours I don’t care, but as a parent who has seen kids get an unfortunate personality remodel from a near-peer bad influences and listened to the experiences of my parent friends who live out of town… the contemporary local culture needs to be considered. It’s not necessarily the cozy small town upbringing we expected in olden days, there has been generational turnover.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#62

Post by TkTech »

yoz-y wrote: post #6

Not enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking. If anything else, for me the main issue in France is the dearth of doctors in rural areas. So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick.

> Not enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking.

I kinda have to disagree with this. Sure, there's not a lot of software engineers grabbing a hoe and moving to a quiet rural farming village. But oh boy is there a lot of money being a software engineer working on farming.

I'd have to say more software engineers are working in agriculture today than ever before - it's one of the reasons why the rural areas can shrink. State programs for mechanization and increasingly advanced and hyper-specific machines are allowing crops that were labour intensive just a decade ago to be done by a team of 2-4. We went apple picking last year and the field next to us was having its apples harvested by flying drones (which was a real "we're living in the future" moment for us) while a worker sat in a lawn chair nearby reading a book.

Then there's the pushes to remove transport costs and grow closer to the cities. All of our family's lettuce, tomatoes and cucumber come year round from greenhouses on the roof Walmarts, warehouses and other big block stores, just a few blocks away - https://montreal.lufa.com/en/farms. 100% "touch-free" automated greenhouses are being built and have entered full productivity - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRts-KOkuM&t=44s. Cheap electricity and thousands of overbuilt (snow load) flat roofs are a good combination for city greenhouses. These "farms" employee directly and indirectly plenty of engineers of all kinds.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#63

Post by Ekaros »

igor_nast wrote: post #18

Yet still a lot of houses is expensive as h...rent/buy - doesn't really matter.

They are not. For Finland it is factor of 5 to 10. So you can get houses for something like 20 to 50 thousand. Or lot less. Same for row houses or "condos". Sometimes these places don't even sell as there simply isn't demand.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#64

Post by gfrecvh »

igor_nast wrote: post #52
gfrecvh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you've never heard of the 1 euro houses in rural Italy then...?

I take it you don't understand that nobody wants to live there - so considering it as a housing option is a joke. But ok, sorry for making a shortcut in my prev comment.

The point that I and the other commenters are making to you is that house are cheaper in less attractive places. I presented an extreme, but it's true across the spectrum.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#65

Post by yokaze »

Mashimo wrote: post #56

Odd, why has Hamburg and Berlin stayed the same population in the last 30 years?

City states. The borders are administrative and hard to change, so people living in the "suburbs" live not only in a different city, but a different state.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#66

Post by gfrecvh »

slaw wrote: post #60
gfrecvh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you've never heard of the 1 euro houses in rural Italy then...?

These 1 Euro houses are scam. You have to pay for renovation more than it is worth.

It's true you have to pay for renovation. It's not true that it's "more than it's worth", and the proof is that people are buying those knowing about the renovation costs.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#67

Post by yawpitch »

selimthegrim wrote: post #3
yawpitch wrote: post #2

Anthropologists announce that human populations tend to congregate towards urbanity. Next sports.

What, no "film at 11" or "Later tonight, Kojak"?

This would definitely be in the apres-Kojak, just before sign-off part of the evening.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#68

Post by gfrecvh »

bonesss wrote: post #61
gfrecvh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of housing available if you can tolerate the inconvenience of a shitty commute. I would rather pay for the better location than pay for the larger house. The physical size of my home isn't a large factor in my quality of life. The length of my commute is. Now I was going to write "It's really weird to me this isn't a more mainstream view", but given the data we're looking at, seems this view is absol…

Longer commutes aren’t just about work, and that time in the car is not free. Kids, kids sports, kids social lives, and kids schooling can leave people trapped in their cars day in and day out trying to reconcile modern urban socialization expectations and the lower property prices they enjoy because of the minor impracticality. In my specific area the housing price reduction of moving out of the city balances out qu…

> parent who has seen kids get an unfortunate personality remodel from a near-peer bad influences

Scary stuff, I would love to hear more. May I ask what country is this?

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#69

Post by yawpitch »

pibaker wrote: post #25
ta20240528 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how you can stop it: no national licences to distribute power, telecommunications, medicine, fuel, etc. Even some software. Then you will have to have regional duplicates of each. Stuff will cost more though.

This is how communist countries managed to make educated professional urbanites live more impoverished lives than American burger flippers. By prioritizing "equality" to the point that you destroy your society's productivity and make everyone's life worse. Would not recommend.

Of course you’re now living through the capitalist dystopia where prioritizing “productivity” is making everyone’s life worse than said communist professional urbanite, but with the added benefit that burger flipping is coming back as an employment sector for recent indentured graduates / serfs.

Would also not recommend.

Re: Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago

#70

Post by katzenversteher »

retired wrote: post #28
yoz-y wrote: post #6

Not enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking. If anything else, for me the main issue in France is the dearth of doctors in rural areas. So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick.

Just hire a large muscular guy from the banlieues to drive you around in your Maserati.

Ideally one that is also a doctor.
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