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An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

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Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#61

Post by watwut »

abixb wrote: post #38
gr_norm wrote: post #32

> Ball, who recently joined OpenAI as Head of Strategic Futures, has argued that frontier AI labs could become a “counterbalance to government.” Before joining the company, he described the organizations building the most advanced AI systems as a “new kind of institution under the sun.” Upvoted not because this is an agreeable idea, but so more people see their insanity for what it is.

Some of the people in the tech industry are, for lack of a better word, borderline insane. They forget how it was literally initial government investments into DARPA and other organizations that laid the foundation for the long ascendance of the tech industry in Northern California, aside from huge pool of talented people imported from mostly Asia. Even a good chunk of artificial neural network and "AI" research was…

They dont forget that. They dont care about any of that. It is a pursuit of a complete power, origins of DARPA are as relevant as history of typewriter.

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#62

Post by dgan »

throwatdem12311 wrote: post #40
dgan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for one, because that's like requiring a particular brand of a tool to be used. That's even ignoring the "required" because usually I can't require that my hide uses a tool unless I, as employer, provide it to him/her

They can require certain “brands” of tools if it’s deemed necessary for some other requirement of the job. In the case of Copilot it’s because Microsoft’s tools already check all the boxes for their enterprise partner requirements and haven’t bothered to do the leg work to get anyone else in-line. It’s completely arbitrary but it’s most likely all legal.

nope, still not buying it. i understand we must live in different jurisdictions, and hère (France) it is explicitly stated that Employer must provide all tools necessary to the work. moreover, the Employee has the explicit right to refuse any request to use his own tools for the job. And finally, any costs for the employee must be reimbursed by the Employer.

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#63

Post by bigbadfeline »

khuey wrote: post #6

Governments are famously tolerant of other actors seeking to rival or usurp their power.

The error here is assuming that government's intolerance to others in post-usurping times is in the interest of the public - then it's no more than suppression of rivals, including those who might actually be willing to help the public.

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#64

Post by throwatdem12311 »

dgan wrote: post #62
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can require certain “brands” of tools if it’s deemed necessary for some other requirement of the job. In the case of Copilot it’s because Microsoft’s tools already check all the boxes for their enterprise partner requirements and haven’t bothered to do the leg work to get anyone else in-line. It’s completely arbitrary but it’s most likely all legal.

nope, still not buying it. i understand we must live in different jurisdictions, and hère (France) it is explicitly stated that Employer must provide all tools necessary to the work. moreover, the Employee has the explicit right to refuse any request to use his own tools for the job. And finally, any costs for the employee must be reimbursed by the Employer.

America is at-will employment and employers can basically make up whatever rules they want. California has some labour laws with regard to hand tools for tradespeople (and maybe other things I’m not familiar with) but pretty much everywhere else it’s Wild West.

Unless California updated their laws recently either I don’t think coding agents count as “hand tools”.

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#65

Post by watwut »

qlte wrote: post #50
esafak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open weights deter capex? Who cares!? Nvidia isn't paying me to increase Openai's capex. I want tokens, not capex. Am I misconstruing the argument?

It makes very little sense to regular people because he’s directing his argument to followers of “e/acc” who he assumes should support policies that mindlessly consolidate power and capital in AI “innovators” (aspiring monopolists to the rest of us). Otherwise, who else will give them their immortality mind uploads, full dive VR and the-movie-Her-but-real-life in a few years?

What is e/acc?

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#67

Post by esafak »

watwut wrote: post #65
qlte wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes very little sense to regular people because he’s directing his argument to followers of “e/acc” who he assumes should support policies that mindlessly consolidate power and capital in AI “innovators” (aspiring monopolists to the rest of us). Otherwise, who else will give them their immortality mind uploads, full dive VR and the-movie-Her-but-real-life in a few years?

What is e/acc?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_accelerationism

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#69

Post by lovich »

gr_norm wrote: post #32

> Ball, who recently joined OpenAI as Head of Strategic Futures, has argued that frontier AI labs could become a “counterbalance to government.” Before joining the company, he described the organizations building the most advanced AI systems as a “new kind of institution under the sun.” Upvoted not because this is an agreeable idea, but so more people see their insanity for what it is.

I expect if someone pulls a Luigi on one of these guys we’re going to see the same surprisingly bipartisan response from the country of “fuck em”

Re: An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

#70

Post by anon373839 »

throwatdem12311 wrote: post #31
dathinab wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is legal?? It's like telling someone they have to drive none stop for their job but neither giving them a company car or nor a budget for it. (To be clear done and companies get away with it != legal. I know companies sometimes get away with exactly the example I named in some cases.)

It’s generally legal for employers to require employees to supply their own tools as a condition of employment as long as it doesn’t reduce their wage to below minimum wage. Why would developers be any different?

Recurring subscription fees are not “tools” the employee owns, they are employer business expenses.

There are statutes requiring employers to fully reimburse business expenses incurred by the employee. Example: Cal. Lab. Code § 2802.

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