Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base • Hacker News Board

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#61

Post by quantified » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:35 AM UTC

Oanid wrote: post #58

echelon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

> People on bikes are not doing these things and are not contributing to the tax base as much as car drivers If you live in car dependent suburbia, sure. And it sounds like you do. And again, little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance.

As someone who enjoys riding their own bike, but uses their car for needs that cannot be met by bikes, I don't think this is just grievance. You can be sour about reality.

SF in particular can be a pain in the butt. There are scearios where public transit works, and many where it doesn't. Biking there from anywhere else is not viable. I need to drive into it in cases when transit doesn't work, and the city is hostile to me trying to spend money. Great for some of its own residents, not for all of them, definitely not for visitors.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#62

Post by wahern » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:35 AM UTC

magic_hamster wrote: post #10

A few points worth contending. First, personal flying vehicles are definitely not going to be a common mode of transportation. If and when this happens, it will be for ultra rich, select few people, effectively replacing a private helicopter. We don't have the infrastructure, regulation or technology to have millions of people buzzing around in their astro-ford like the fifth element - this is still very much science…

Amazon had approximately zero net profits for 20 years or so. It was a meme not too long ago--how much longer will investors keep pouring money into Amazon before either they stop or Amazon starts reaping a bounty they had been sowing for decades.

But everybody seemed to believe Amazon was building an insurmountable, monopoly-like position. That never happened. Then AWS came out of nowhere and that's when their profits finally took off, and investors won their bet, but in an unpredicted way.

The problem with the car industry is that, excepting Tesla for 5-10 years, nobody believes there are outsized profits to be made, and other than Musk (once upon a time), nobody with the personality to convince them otherwise. Though Amazon didn't need a personality; everyone just sort of assumed Bezos was an evil business genius biding time.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#63

Post by quantified » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:36 AM UTC

sohrob wrote: post #47

Cars have become obscenely expensive and auto makers seem to be incorporating more and more planned obsolescence into their designs, so I've decided I'm just going to keep driving my aging car for as long as I can and maybe just get an e-bike for short trips to the market. It really feels like the auto industry is made up of dinosaurs who don't see the asteroid coming their way.

Cargo e-bikes seem like the ideal platform for fair-weather suburbia.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#64

Post by imtringued » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:37 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #54

karlgkk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance. Very few cities in the us are actively anti car, and the ones that are, are dense enough that vehicle emissions are a local problem for them. We’re not demanding evs for ourselves, we’re demanding gas cars stop gassing our homes. You want to drive a v8 dually? Great, go nuts! Keep it out of SF!

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

Right turn on red is an insane idea that any sane person would heavily disagree with. Only North Americans are crazy enough to believe that a red light should mean go.

>The bike lanes are gender and age inequitable,

How? Everyone can ride a bicycle, even kids and seniors, meanwhile cars are locked behind expensive driving lessons, licenses and exams. Not to mention car ownership is inherently expensive due to fuel, maintenance and insurance requirements. E-bikes give anyone a motor assist and can carry you uphill without any problems while still being good for your health.

>and hamper productive economic activities.

Most productive economic activities just require people to show up to work. Buying something is not a productive activity by definition and nobody is suggesting that deliveries should be done on bicycles.

>I drive a car because I'm buying things, traveling with family, and spending hundreds of dollars. People on bikes are not doing these things and are not contributing to the tax base as much as car drivers.

Ok now this is turning into a parody. Do you know what's even more expensive than driving a car? Building and maintaining a road for cars. European bike lanes cost almost nothing in maintenance. Sprawl in North America is actively bankrupting cities because drivers don't bring in enough tax revenue to maintain the roads they drive on. Driving to a property tax optimized big box store at the outskirts of the city doesn't bring in as much property tax as you think it does.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#65

Post by mpol » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:41 AM UTC

lelanthran wrote: post #56

reverius42 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of 2010 Toyotas still out there, running great, if you want one. The market has instead demanded more different-looking cars (for variety), and generally larger vehicles with a higher riding position, not to mention newer creature comforts like air conditioned seats, and safety features like beeping at you when a car is in your blind spot and you try to change lanes. The evidence that this is what th…

> There are plenty of 2010 Toyotas still out there, running great, if you want one. That's not my point. My point is that the billions poured into designing the three new generations of Toyota since 2010 did not have to be spent by Toyota. But they did spend it, to design new cars, with little to no actual improvements, and so they have had to price their new cars appropriately, to recoup the cost. What would a brand…

That is what Dacia is to Renault, the tech from the previous model. Still, Renault is vastly outselling Dacia.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#66

Post by jjav » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 6:52 AM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #64

echelon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

Right turn on red is an insane idea that any sane person would heavily disagree with. Only North Americans are crazy enough to believe that a red light should mean go. >The bike lanes are gender and age inequitable, How? Everyone can ride a bicycle, even kids and seniors, meanwhile cars are locked behind expensive driving lessons, licenses and exams. Not to mention car ownership is inherently expensive due to fuel, m…

> Right turn on red is an insane idea that any sane person would heavily disagree with.

Obviously not since it is so widely adopted.

Right on red is an extremely useful optimization so you don't sit waiting for nothing when it is clearly safe to turn.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#67

Post by alextingle » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 7:10 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #54

karlgkk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance. Very few cities in the us are actively anti car, and the ones that are, are dense enough that vehicle emissions are a local problem for them. We’re not demanding evs for ourselves, we’re demanding gas cars stop gassing our homes. You want to drive a v8 dually? Great, go nuts! Keep it out of SF!

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

Just get a bike, and stop moaning.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#68

Post by magicalhippo » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 7:20 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #54

karlgkk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little of what you said is based on fact, only grievance. Very few cities in the us are actively anti car, and the ones that are, are dense enough that vehicle emissions are a local problem for them. We’re not demanding evs for ourselves, we’re demanding gas cars stop gassing our homes. You want to drive a v8 dually? Great, go nuts! Keep it out of SF!

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

Here in Oslo, Norway they've also been ripping up roads to make bike lanes, make streets one-way to accommodate the bike lane and so on. And yeah, initially not a lot of bikers.

But it's been a few years, and in the meantime good e-bikes are affordable for most here now, so these days there's quite a lot of bike riders all over.

Of course when the snow and ice sets in there are fewer, though a fair few carry on with studded tires and good clothing.

It took some years but there's no denying there are significantly more people riding bikes to and from work, to and from kindergarten or similar.

Build it and they will come...

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#69

Post by pmontra » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 7:54 AM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #68

echelon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only grievance They're ripping up lanes of traffic in my city and replacing them with bike lanes that nobody uses. The busy intersection next to my home used to take all of 15 seconds to turn at, now I get stuck for five to six minutes at a time because they now forbid right turns on red and stuck left turners in front of right turners. Meanwhile, nobody is using the bike lanes. The bike lanes are gender and age in…

Here in Oslo, Norway they've also been ripping up roads to make bike lanes, make streets one-way to accommodate the bike lane and so on. And yeah, initially not a lot of bikers. But it's been a few years, and in the meantime good e-bikes are affordable for most here now, so these days there's quite a lot of bike riders all over. Of course when the snow and ice sets in there are fewer, though a fair few carry on with…

However I can see my 80 yo self driving a car (I know plenty of them that still drive) but I can't see my 80 yo self riding a bicycle in winter, especially on snow. I know some 80 yo cyclist but not many of them. So there must be some balance. In cities the balance often takes into account metro, buses and trains. In the countryside it's almost only cars.

Re: Some car companies are operating without regard for a declining customer base

#70

Post by tonyedgecombe » Wed, Aug 05, 2026, 7:56 AM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #32

Some car companies are purposefully positioning themselves to have fewer customers as they've learned that they are much more profitable selling a small number of high margin vehicles to a few people instead of a large number of low margin vehicles to a lot of people.

It used to be that they were happy to sell small cheap cars to new buyers because it would build brand loyalty. I'm not sure people are so wedded to car companies now though, especially so when so many brands are owned by a handful of companies.

Small cheap cars have been disappearing from the ranges of most manufacturers.