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Western Sahara

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Re: Western Sahara

#61

Post by artnanika »

timinou wrote: post #53
artnanika wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Morocco a "constitutional monarchy" when it is a hereditary dictatorship with no binding constitution (meaning no greater authority to punish the king for violating the "constitution") discredits all the other points you've made. Also, there's a difference between undemocratic and antidemocratic. Morocco is antidemocratic, while Polisario is undemocratic. Polisario could be a democracy if it allows its leader…

Here's a link to Morocco's constitution in English: https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Morocco_2011 We kinda voted for it, so it's quite binding on the king. We also have elections in a couple of months. The king has clear areas where he's limited, for example that he has to appoint the chief of government from the party that came in first. In practice though, democracy doesn't seem to work at enacting ve…

For reference, Algeria too has a constitution : https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Algeria_2020

But I assume you did not call Algeria a constitutional dictatorship because the Algerian constitution itself isn't really binding. If your constitution doesn't allow for the impeachment of the head of state/government for violations of the constitution, then it is effectively meaningless. That's the difference between a law and a rule, the law is binding while rules aren't.

The US and French constitutions for example clearly outline procedures to impeach the head of the executive, while no such measures exist for the head of the executive in Morocco.

Re: Western Sahara

#62

Post by nephihaha »

glitchcrab wrote: post #18
coshi_dz wrote: post #9

who submited this to hacker news doesnt seem like a fiting spot

I had never heard of Western Sahara, nor did I know about Morocco's involvement even though I've visited Morocco several times. So I found this very interesting and I learnt something new. Seems to fit here quite well to me.

Just wait til you hear about the West Papua/Irian Jaya conflict. 100K dead and counting. Barely on news anywhere.

Re: Western Sahara

#63

Post by nephihaha »

adolph wrote: post #7

It is interesting that Western Sahara never developed piracy enterprises similar to Somalia. Is it some combination of: * stronger government control from Morocco than Somalia has had internally * little indigenous sea-faring populations outside of controllable cities * sea lanes with less hospitable currents * something else?

Piracy used to be common in North Africa, but more along the Mediterranean Coast where there is far more shipping. The Red Sea is also a choke point.

Re: Western Sahara

#64

Post by throw-the-towel »

foco_tubi wrote: post #39
culi wrote: post #3

It's fascinating. Basically the entire world's phosphate comes from this (it has 70% of the world's proven reserves). No country on earth recognizes Morocco's claims over this Saharawi land. At least they didn't until 2020 when Trump became the first in exchange for Morocco normalizing relations with Israel. The case has been taken to international court multiple times and always ruled against Morocco's claims. Despi…

In 2023, Israel formally recognized Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara.

Spain also supported Moroccan administration, but IDK if they actually recognised it formally.

Re: Western Sahara

#65

Post by Computer0 »

coshi_dz wrote: post #9

who submited this to hacker news doesnt seem like a fiting spot

I find the value of this site to be the people. There are insightful discussions about immigration, visas, law, and other news-adjacent topics that have commenters who engage in a way I have not found elsewhere on the internet. I think this site has more value as a highly thoughtful forum space than a technical discussion space.

Re: Western Sahara

#66

Post by janpeuker »

Arubis wrote: post #4

Dakhla is actually pretty tourist-friendly, and spending time there will quickly do away with the notion that nobody lives in Western Sahara. It's well-known for kiteboarding and windsurfing, since it's got pretty consistent wind and surf and a hot-comfortably dry climate. Pretty heavy police presence and you're supporting Moroccan arguable-occupation by heading there, though, so it's a tradeoff.

> arguable-occupation

very much occupation https://www.freewesternsahara.org/history-of-conflict-press

Re: Western Sahara

#67

Post by thinkindie »

I visited the Saharawi refugees camps around 15 years ago or so in the south-west corner of Algeria.

They have been living in a limbo for 50 years at this point, but they still feel like they will be able to go back to their land therefore they don't really settle there (they are also in the middle of a desert). Some people gave up on the idea to return to their land (but still feel temporary), others were really frustrated with the fact nothing moved and you could see this frustration at the annual demo in front of the "Muro de la Verguenza", which is the "wall" erected by the Moroccans with landmines and strongholds along the front line.

Re: Western Sahara

#68

Post by stephbook »

jvican wrote: post #58
JuniperMesos wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is any different than the United Kingdom and its monarchy.

In constitutional monarchy systems like the UK, the king/queen serves a merely representative and largely symbolic role. Morocco's king actually rules over the country. That is a big difference.

I don't think you'll be able to argue with Moroccans. If they criticize their dictator they land in prison, so..

Re: Western Sahara

#69

Post by RobertoG »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #64
foco_tubi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2023, Israel formally recognized Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara.

Spain also supported Moroccan administration, but IDK if they actually recognised it formally.

Spain changed recently its pro-independent Sahara without a reasonable explanation. It totally feels like a betrayal. Many of us think it was because of pressures of the Americans and the Israelis.

Re: Western Sahara

#70

Post by stephbook »

yorwba wrote: post #46
timinou wrote: post #29

A couple of misconceptions about Western Sahara I've seen pop up over the past few days: - most (90%) of Morocco's phosphate mining is done in non-disputed territories (it's mentioned in the article). The most disputed resource is actually fish, and to some degree predicted oil reserves. - Tribal allegiances to the Moroccan crown date back from way before colonial times. Today, part of the Sahrawi population supports…

> Sahrawis on the Moroccan controlled areas basically enjoy a welfare state with free transport, no VAT, and many other benefits. How is this implemented? Do ethnic Sahrawis get special IDs that entitle them to such benefits? Or do they also apply to Moroccan settlers from the north? And considering that Moroccan provincial boundaries don't align with the borders of Spanish West Africa, where does Western Sahara even…

He never said northerners don't get the same benefit. The contrast was obviously with Sahrawis on the Polisario side, which stay poor and Moroccans outside of the Sahara, which have to pay VAT.
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