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The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

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Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#61

Post by Xichekolas »

inglorian wrote: post #56
vaksel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See thats the thing, your anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove my assertion, it reinforces it. 40 years ago the women knew that for a successful marriage you needed a mutual effort. I'm talking about modern women, who know that divorce is a viable option, and that it is not worth trying when you have a big pay day in front of you. I know a lot of unhappy men, not couples. In those relationships women seem to be fine.…

Are American women so adept at hiding their "true" selves for so long? Perhaps your friends are poor judges of character, or simply didn't date them long enough to properly assess how they would function as a married couple. Where I come from, it is taken as common knowledge that you should live together for a significant amount of time before getting married (2+ years is usual). Also, big extravagant weddings are no…

> Where I come from, it is taken as common knowledge that you should live together for a significant amount of time before getting married (2+ years is usual). Also, big extravagant weddings are not the norm -- most of my immediate and extended family got married by signing papers in a courthouse, or in a small ceremony at the most.

Welcome to suburban America, where premarital sex is akin to treason against God, and the average wedding costs $20k.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#62

Post by inglorian »

vaksel wrote: post #59
inglorian wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are American women so adept at hiding their "true" selves for so long? Perhaps your friends are poor judges of character, or simply didn't date them long enough to properly assess how they would function as a married couple. Where I come from, it is taken as common knowledge that you should live together for a significant amount of time before getting married (2+ years is usual). Also, big extravagant weddings are no…

its not really being adept, they just hide who they truly are. They may hate sex, but they do it, because they know that if they don't put out the guy will leave. They go to the gym, because they know if they become a fat slob the guy will leave. They act nice, because they know that if they are a bitch the guy will leave. When they get married on the other hand, they know that the guy can't leave anymore, so they ca…

It is possible that the women in these scenarios are entirely at fault, but unlikely. Relationship problems usually stem from both of the people involved.

>>They may hate sex, but they do it

I don't know ANY women who hate sex itself. Perhaps the man has gotten lazier as well, in regards to sex?

>>They go to the gym...if they become a fat slob the guy will leave

Women's bodies are not the only ones that deteriorate. Are all of the men of your acquaintance perfectly fit as well? Furthermore, many women's bodies change in unexpected ways after childbirth...it is entirely normal to take up to a year post-breast feeding to recover, and that is provided that the women has time away from the child to exercise.

>>They act nice

As another woman on the thread mentioned, it is not only women who can be petty in relationships. Her "bitchy" behavior is almost certainly at least partially the husband's fault.

Perhaps the husband began working more hours, which combined with childcare, left the couple no time to be together?

It cannot be denied that marriage is hard. But it is far from impossible, and far from unsatisfactory when done properly. However, it takes work on both sides to maintain and adapt. I am not denying that the woman causes problems of her own, but relationships are rarely broken just by the fault of one person. You are probably getting a biased account because you are hearing it from the husband's perspective. Their wives may have things to say that would surprise you.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#63

Post by wallflower »

inglorian wrote: post #62
vaksel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not really being adept, they just hide who they truly are. They may hate sex, but they do it, because they know that if they don't put out the guy will leave. They go to the gym, because they know if they become a fat slob the guy will leave. They act nice, because they know that if they are a bitch the guy will leave. When they get married on the other hand, they know that the guy can't leave anymore, so they ca…

It is possible that the women in these scenarios are entirely at fault, but unlikely. Relationship problems usually stem from both of the people involved. >>They may hate sex, but they do it I don't know ANY women who hate sex itself. Perhaps the man has gotten lazier as well, in regards to sex? >>They go to the gym...if they become a fat slob the guy will leave Women's bodies are not the only ones that deteriorate.…

My friend said it best or quoted someone: "Marriage is not a one-time event."

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#64

Post by ahpeeyem »

dgabriel wrote: post #50
ahpeeyem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"suburban-bred office cows" that is gold :)

So how do we refer to the low quality suburban men? Or is this thread limited to woman-bashing?

Bash away. I'm not saying I agree with the phrase's sentiment, it's just funny. Moo.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#65

Post by unalone »

randallsquared wrote: post #37
nostrademons wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've noticed this too. Some of the women I know that are quite attractive now at 22-27 were very awkward-looking at 15-17, which is the age range when all reasonably fit girls are supposed to be attractive. While some of the hotties from high school look old and washed up, even at just 25.

Your "awkward" may be what others refer to as "cute".

Nah, I know what he's talking about. A lot of girls in high school are lanky or not entirely busty, and when girls "break out" at 14 or 15 that's the hot look for them to have. Those girls very often burn out or don't worry so much about maintaining their looks, while the girls who were awkward-looking grew into themselves and suddenly turned very lovely.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#66

Post by dgabriel »

whacked_new wrote: post #51
dgabriel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that no American women read this site? Or do you think that you are so superior to us that your blanket statements, no matter how ignorant and harmful, are more important than treating us as if we were actual human beings? Do all men stay in shape their whole marriage? Is pettiness always limited to the female partner? Please. I work hard, I have always worked, and every woman I know works (aside from th…

In his defense, he's merely speaking out of Bayesian consequences. There's nothing to dare or not dare about. If you hear people get mugged in a neighborhood more than another, you'd avoid it and possibly speak out against it, but as a consequence, violate all the good people in the neighborhood. What I feel is lacking, and very much so, is the other side of the perspective. (and by that I don't mean by merely pointi…

Really? He didn't present any evidence, aside from some anecdotal stories about "everyone he knows," and instead presented a series of terrible stereotypes.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat2.pdf More than half of women work, and while that number is lower than the percentage of men who work (74%), it's hard to tell from the data presented whether or not advanced age affects the numbers.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/fa... Out of 49 million women between the ages of 21 and 44, there are only 5.4 million stay-at-home moms (98,000 dads, possibly not including the temporarily unemployed).

Honestly, I don't feel like debunking everything. I feel like the onus is on me to disprove specious claims, rather than the other way around. It's akin to arguing with a creationist.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#67

Post by vaksel »

inglorian wrote: post #62
vaksel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not really being adept, they just hide who they truly are. They may hate sex, but they do it, because they know that if they don't put out the guy will leave. They go to the gym, because they know if they become a fat slob the guy will leave. They act nice, because they know that if they are a bitch the guy will leave. When they get married on the other hand, they know that the guy can't leave anymore, so they ca…

It is possible that the women in these scenarios are entirely at fault, but unlikely. Relationship problems usually stem from both of the people involved. >>They may hate sex, but they do it I don't know ANY women who hate sex itself. Perhaps the man has gotten lazier as well, in regards to sex? >>They go to the gym...if they become a fat slob the guy will leave Women's bodies are not the only ones that deteriorate.…

Yes its a two way street, but from what I'm seeing, the guys are the ones who are trying and the women are the ones who gave up.

No idea, but I do know that one guy hasn't gotten laid in 5 years, and the other only gets sex on big occasions like his birthday. The rest just bitch that they don't get as much as they used to.

The main ones: One I know is in the shame shape that he was in when they got married. The other one has actually gotten better since he hides from the wife at the gym. The other ones aren't as close friends so I don't really know what they looked like when they got married but most of them are in decent shape. Recovery thing also doesn't apply, since those are the older friends so they had their kids 3-4 years ago.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I'd side with the guys in this situation since I know for a fact that they've been the ones trying in the relationship.

Nope still same 40 hour work weeks.

I disagree, if one person tries to fix things, while the other does nothing, its the one who does nothing that is at fault for relationship deteriorating.

And yeah I may be biased towards my friends, but I met the wives too and honestly I haven't seen an ounce of contradicting evidence in how they act towards their husbands.

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#68

Post by vaksel »

dgabriel wrote: post #66
whacked_new wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In his defense, he's merely speaking out of Bayesian consequences. There's nothing to dare or not dare about. If you hear people get mugged in a neighborhood more than another, you'd avoid it and possibly speak out against it, but as a consequence, violate all the good people in the neighborhood. What I feel is lacking, and very much so, is the other side of the perspective. (and by that I don't mean by merely pointi…

Really? He didn't present any evidence, aside from some anecdotal stories about "everyone he knows," and instead presented a series of terrible stereotypes. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat2.pdf More than half of women work, and while that number is lower than the percentage of men who work (74%), it's hard to tell from the data presented whether or not advanced age affects the numbers. http://www.census.gov/Press-Relea…

what does women working have anything to do with the discussion?

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#69

Post by whacked_new »

dgabriel wrote: post #66
whacked_new wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In his defense, he's merely speaking out of Bayesian consequences. There's nothing to dare or not dare about. If you hear people get mugged in a neighborhood more than another, you'd avoid it and possibly speak out against it, but as a consequence, violate all the good people in the neighborhood. What I feel is lacking, and very much so, is the other side of the perspective. (and by that I don't mean by merely pointi…

Really? He didn't present any evidence, aside from some anecdotal stories about "everyone he knows," and instead presented a series of terrible stereotypes. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat2.pdf More than half of women work, and while that number is lower than the percentage of men who work (74%), it's hard to tell from the data presented whether or not advanced age affects the numbers. http://www.census.gov/Press-Relea…

I apologize for being unclear and imprecise. Evidence is not the word I should have used. I'm just talking about perspective. What the OP stated was not evidence, and neither did I have that confused. Those were judgments based on Bayesian reasoning. They are efficient and correct, by probability, in his life. I defended him because in asking "how dare you," you seem to think his opinions violate a basic right of dignity (or something?), when I maintain that it is perfectly reasonable and understandable to have those opinions.

Rather than "evidence" I should have said something like, please provide us with priors that may reinforce the opposite belief. That isn't to say that you didn't already provide some, but it was also obvious that you took this personally, which detracts from what we are looking for (balanced priors).

Also, from a purely pedantic point of view (which I often take for its own sake, nor am I really partial to a particular viewpoint), I don't think any of those census numbers debunk anything, if we're talking about how a marriage may be a bad decision.

Nevertheless, there is only one kind of spurious claim going around here: blanket statements. Whomever believes them makes a fool of themselves, but we -- at least I am -- are still interested in hearing more perspectives :)

Re: The Eligible Bachelor Paradox

#70

Post by jcl »

tyn wrote: post #39

Why is it not the case that attractive men postpone their decision too, just as attractive women do?

In isolated cases perhaps attractive men also postpone their decision, but I believe that the idealization given in the article is pretty close to reality: women decide and men settle for what they can get.

I recall reading about some research showing that overweight women actually have sex more often than their peers, which seems to support this theory. (http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/10/31/Overweight_women_h...)

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