Live data from Hacker News

Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

rtx.com

61–70 of 104 posts

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#61
post #30

I wonder if during descent instead of cutting power alot to control speed it can instead use the energy to charge the batteries.

Says that it's boost-only in all the literature I could see, so it can only add power to the prop not generate with it. Regardless, you don't really get into a position where you're harvesting energy in a plane - you just use less power while you're descending. Unlike in a car, most of a passenger jet's flight time is at speeds where drag (which squares with speed) basically means you'd have to nose down at a very aggressive angle to actually pick up speed without the engines providing thrust. The plane's engines are almost always under some kind of load until it is on the tarmac and slowing down so there isn't any opportunity to "regen" during a normal flight.

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#62
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fuel burn of take-off and climb substantially lightens the aircraft for cruise. Electric batteries have no such effect, you're carrying all that dead weight for the rest of the flight. This reduces the passenger or cargo capacity of the aircraft, which reduces potential revenue. And what if you need two go-arounds?

Exactly. A hybrid passenger car can tolerate unpredictable power output that may come with an auxiliary power setup that may or may not be available when stronger dynamics are called for. A plane doesn’t have this luxury and needs predictable output. The fossil fuel engine either needs a sacrificial “overboost” mode for emergencies (at the cost of wear/long-term longevity), or has to be sized for full power at the ul…

So theoretically if the electric motors fail (or battery is dead) an engine could be sized and designed smaller (for cruise efficiency) but have some sort of boost mode that still ensures safety ? At the cost of increased maintenance or wear or something if it must be used

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use the larger turbine with the efficiency benefits ? Or does downsizing the turbine save on so much weight that it makes a big enough difference?

The larger turbine (like a PW100 1.8MW in the dash-8 that this demonstrator is replacing) is at peak efficiency (~0.30kg/kWh output SFC) near full load, then it cuts back to 50% power while cruising where it also drops into a less-efficient SFC rate (~0.36) then down again to 20% (~0.45) for descent vs the "always at 100%" 1MW version which stays pretty much pinned at 0.30kg/kWh sfc sweet spot during all of the fligh…

[dead]

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#64
post #59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d imagine the apu could recharge it during flight at least somewhat.

Yes but then you're erasing some of your fuel efficiency gains on take-off by running a significantly less efficient APU to charge it back up. Also I think the APU is a built in unit designed entirely for in-flight loads (like an alternator on a car) and not intended to provide the kind of energy you'd need to even moderately recharge this pack after takeoff/ascent.

I wonder if a supercapacitor could be integrated into this setup

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#65
post #61
post #30

I wonder if during descent instead of cutting power alot to control speed it can instead use the energy to charge the batteries.

Says that it's boost-only in all the literature I could see, so it can only add power to the prop not generate with it. Regardless, you don't really get into a position where you're harvesting energy in a plane - you just use less power while you're descending. Unlike in a car, most of a passenger jet's flight time is at speeds where drag (which squares with speed) basically means you'd have to nose down at a very ag…

Yea that makes sense. Can't be hitting stall speed. Although maybe there's an argument for less load / wear on the turbine motor if the electric motors could be involved during landing ?

Or maybe you keep your downsized turbine motor running closer to peak efficiency even during landing and increase the mechanical energy harvesting to your APU or alternator thing or whatever to control speed and use that to charge a small supercapacitor. In the event of an aborted landing the supercapacitor could provide a boost of thrust to your electric motors. This would keep wear on the battery lower and also allow it to dump energy at its peak efficiency

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#68
post #40

anything that gets rid of leaded fuel on prop aircraft is a win even if 0% efficiency improvement

If you care about leaded fuel, the culprit now is general aviation - small airports, Cessnas, not commercial flights. If you go work on it, let me know, I'll help you!

Dont we have approved fuel replacement for leaded fuel now finally ?

Also I swear there was a company replacing a push pull type plane with a hybrid ?

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to invent regenerative air brakes, like fold-out windmills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine

And besides that, there is the looping parachute APU.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9452721B2/en

Re: Hybrid-Electric Aicraft Engine Targeting 30% Fuel Efficiency

#70
post #35

1300 HP electric engine power, now that's an achievement. I do wonder if prop engines can act as "windmills" (similar to turbine engines, which often in accidents still have been found to provide a bit of hydraulic power), which means regenerative braking could be used instead of speedbrakes.

After they land, they usually sit around for a while. Not really super important to charge the battery on decent I wouldn't think. Would be interesting to get rid of the battery entirely (or reduce the size) and have a beefed up magsafe plug that was attached during lift off, and came unplugged once it was at cruising altitude.

At that point seems like you might as well use a launch system like aircraft carriers use
Post reply on HN