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Why care about programming languages

ebellani.github.io

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Re: Why care about programming languages

#61
post #56
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like an old ASM programmer telling himself that his obscure assembly knowledge will surely still give him great advantages as he is forced to switch to React.js development. The engineers that are truly skilled in writing pure assembly wouldn't be forced to switch to React. The existence of higher level languages doesn't mean lower level languages are useless.

I'm pretty sure that nowadays much less assembly is written than a few decades ago. Even video games used to be written in assembly. So the demand for assembly programmers went down, and the skill became less useful, unless the supply went down by the same amount.

You're right, but that doesn't mean those assembly programmers are suddenly forced to write React.

Being an expert at assembly probably means you're an expert in low level programming. We still have a need for those people, because they'll probably also be able to write C/C++/Rust/Zig/etc very competently.

I consider myself pretty competent in C(And C++ to some degree), and I have a pretty good understanding of how computers work on a lower level, but if you ask me to write React UI components, I probably wouldn't fare well. I understand Javascript/Typescript, sure, but I'm just not familiar with the best practices of modern day frontend engineering.

Re: Why care about programming languages

#62
post #61
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that nowadays much less assembly is written than a few decades ago. Even video games used to be written in assembly. So the demand for assembly programmers went down, and the skill became less useful, unless the supply went down by the same amount.

You're right, but that doesn't mean those assembly programmers are suddenly forced to write React. Being an expert at assembly probably means you're an expert in low level programming. We still have a need for those people, because they'll probably also be able to write C/C++/Rust/Zig/etc very competently. I consider myself pretty competent in C(And C++ to some degree), and I have a pretty good understanding of how c…

That's the thing with LLMs though. Assembly developers can switch to Rust or something like that. But LLMs probably write C or Go approximately as competently as they write Javascript. There is no commonly used language one could switch to which isn't automated yet.

Re: Why care about programming languages

#63
post #62
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but that doesn't mean those assembly programmers are suddenly forced to write React. Being an expert at assembly probably means you're an expert in low level programming. We still have a need for those people, because they'll probably also be able to write C/C++/Rust/Zig/etc very competently. I consider myself pretty competent in C(And C++ to some degree), and I have a pretty good understanding of how c…

That's the thing with LLMs though. Assembly developers can switch to Rust or something like that. But LLMs probably write C or Go approximately as competently as they write Javascript. There is no commonly used language one could switch to which isn't automated yet.

That I disagree with, though. First of all, Go is a garbage collected language, so can't be compared to C.

C is a language that is able to target basically every platform under the sun. It's versatile: User-space applications, kernel modules, and embedded firmware applications with an RTOS or even running on bare metal.

LLMs can produce basic C code, but (still) struggle with more specialized tasks.

They can be incredibly useful for skimming through long datasheet PDFs, but it's still up to the engineer to actually make sure the code it produces is actually good.

Re: Why care about programming languages

#65
post #63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing with LLMs though. Assembly developers can switch to Rust or something like that. But LLMs probably write C or Go approximately as competently as they write Javascript. There is no commonly used language one could switch to which isn't automated yet.

That I disagree with, though. First of all, Go is a garbage collected language, so can't be compared to C. C is a language that is able to target basically every platform under the sun. It's versatile: User-space applications, kernel modules, and embedded firmware applications with an RTOS or even running on bare metal. LLMs can produce basic C code, but (still) struggle with more specialized tasks. They can be incre…

> LLMs can produce basic C code, but (still) struggle with more specialized tasks.

And for how many more months will this state last?

Re: Why care about programming languages

#66
post #65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I disagree with, though. First of all, Go is a garbage collected language, so can't be compared to C. C is a language that is able to target basically every platform under the sun. It's versatile: User-space applications, kernel modules, and embedded firmware applications with an RTOS or even running on bare metal. LLMs can produce basic C code, but (still) struggle with more specialized tasks. They can be incre…

> LLMs can produce basic C code, but (still) struggle with more specialized tasks. And for how many more months will this state last?

Who knows? I'm an engineer, not a psychic.

Re: Why care about programming languages

#69

I think a lot of folks in the industry are feeling this way. It’s an existential crisis for many of us right now. Why bother progressing when slop is “good enough”? Some of us still care but I have a feeling there are a lot of people that don’t.

There's very little evidence, if any, to suggest that slop is actually "good enough". I have interacted with multiple apps that clearly were written using AI by people who did not actually spend the time understanding what was made, and it most certainly was not an experience that I would classify as "good enough". I know this may be some kind of reverse survivorship bias and that I simply do not notice all of the sl…

I certainly still care but I've seen a lot of founders and investors who don't seem to. :(

Re: Why care about programming languages

#70
post #15

Can't remember who said it, but I think the most poignant commentary about the prospects of LLMs completely replacing humans is the simple observation that yes, you can delegate many if not all of your tasks requiring thinking to LLMs, but it is inherently impossible to delegate the task of understanding . If you hope to write an efficient prompt which gives you what you think you want, you need to actually understan…

> would you rather review LLM-written assembly or LLM-written Haskell? I wish we had a language that was targeted specifically for LLMs to write and humans and LLMs to inspect: - Simple robust syntax - One obvious way to do things - Static type checking - Purely functional encouraged, escape hatches for performance - Inspect-able, testable, and reviewable in small pieces - Something like formal predicates, preconditi…

While I expect that a language specifically for LLMs would not be a terrible idea, I think what is actually needed is a different interface for LLMs to use.

Currently Claude Code and Codex are primarily interfacing with code directly mostly using shell tools, while humans typically use IDEs.

Yes, I realize that there are lots of IDE-integrated LLM solutions, but this isn't exactly what I'm thinking about...

I'm thinking more of an API/MCP that the agent would need to use to work with the code which provides all the necessary interfaces, and designed specifically for AI agents.

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