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Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

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61–70 of 491 posts

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#61
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the blog post moonshot refers to it as open source but only mentions releasing the weights.

The weights are the "source" of a model.

If weights are the source for models then ELF binaries are the source for software.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#62
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the blog post moonshot refers to it as open source but only mentions releasing the weights.

The weights are the "source" of a model.

The weights are the output artifact, the training corpus and system are the source.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#63
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For regular chat users it's $19 while Claude is $20...

$20 users don't get access to Fable. It's $100+ tier only.

I'm a $20 user and was given $100 extra usage credit today, "for Fable" (I'll be sticking to Sonnet and sometimes Opus TYVM).

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#65
post #28

Is there something specifically with Kimi that's better here? As far as I know Kimi pricing is about the same as Sonnet 5 -- what happens if you use that model and Fable instead? Or Grok 4.5 which is even cheaper?

The article says Kimi is better at some things than Fable. That's probably not true of Sonnet.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#66
post #49

Openrouter also features routing. Routing is indeed an option if you don’t need consistent behavior and allow switching models.

It would only be inconsistent if the router chose different models for the same task.

Considering that of 89 terminal tasks there were 11 that only Kimi got right, and 7 only Fable - having a router gives significantly more consistent results if you define consistent to mean correct.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#67
post #10

Hmmm, a company that hosts open models is telling us how good open models are...

They share their methodology and results. I learned things about the relative strengths and weaknesses of Kimi and Fable I hadn’t seen anywhere else. Should being in the model hosting business disqualify them from sharing?

People are allowed to say, "hey we make money off of this thing, it's cheaper and almost as good as the thing we can't money off".

Other people are allowed to call them on that.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#68
post #3

A third the cost, open source, and won't refuse every other request because of some vague possible connection to cybersecurity concerns.

Interestingly the reality of the open source release is they are opening up to full distillation by the closed source model providers at a deeper and more fundamental level. If anything the open sourcing will help Anthropic and open ai ladder up faster. Open source has always been about mutual cooperation towards a goal and has never closed the door to commercial success. All the hand wringing about open weight model…

The closed labs don't really benefit unless the open model has something extra they don't have though. Meanwhile the open model dilutes their customer base and seriously cheapens their offering (which is a heck of a good though IMO).

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#69

I have several thoughts about this, which I'll just iterate: 1) US export bans have made it so that Chinese companies have to compete using less-than-state-of-the-art hardware. This has forced Chinese companies to build more cost efficient models. Whereas, US companies have moreso tried to be state of the art by spending more money than anyone else on state-of-the-art hardware. 2) Xi Jinping has called for more open…

Implying that AI is the last jewel of the USA is too simplistic and ignorant.

People are paying for tokens, that will likely continue even if open weight wins.

Re: Kimi K3 Is Competitive with Fable; Kimi K3 and Fable Is SoTA

#70

Very interesting. They test Kimi K3 and Fable on a set of approx 1000 tasks grouped into 5 areas (SWE, Legal, etc). They put a router model in front that predicts whether Kimi or Fable is going to give a better cost for a correct result. (They believe that ultimately such a router model should be continuously trained on your own workloads so it makes the best decisions for you). Their router chose Kimi the majority o…

There are a bunch of routers like this eg https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto
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