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US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

bbc.com

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Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#61

Post by GoblinSlayer »

throw0101d wrote: post #54
WarmWash wrote: post #33

Permanent standard time means less sunlight time after work. Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. Changing the clock twice a year fixes that and lets us avoid both, with the only cost being people complaining for a day afterwards. It's like ripping off the bandaid, instead of doing a slow agonizing pull that lasts months. And yes, I know some people take like 6 weeks to adjust and they will complai…

> Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. It means much more than that: > Later sunrises and sunsets, as seen with pDST, are associated with multiple long-term health outcomes including increases in stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, obesity, and cancer.[8–10] > The increase in obesity and other cardiovascular health problems show that even if DST were to encourage exercise in some individuals it is not…

And health problems will pump money into big pharma.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#62

Post by WarmWash »

throw0101d wrote: post #54
WarmWash wrote: post #33

Permanent standard time means less sunlight time after work. Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. Changing the clock twice a year fixes that and lets us avoid both, with the only cost being people complaining for a day afterwards. It's like ripping off the bandaid, instead of doing a slow agonizing pull that lasts months. And yes, I know some people take like 6 weeks to adjust and they will complai…

> Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. It means much more than that: > Later sunrises and sunsets, as seen with pDST, are associated with multiple long-term health outcomes including increases in stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, obesity, and cancer.[8–10] > The increase in obesity and other cardiovascular health problems show that even if DST were to encourage exercise in some individuals it is not…

I'm going to be dubious of any study that has a call to action section and the author is the vice president of an advocacy group for their cause. It's a little bit of a "we investigated ourselves and found we were right about everything".

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#63

Post by undersuit »

WarmWash wrote: post #33

Permanent standard time means less sunlight time after work. Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. Changing the clock twice a year fixes that and lets us avoid both, with the only cost being people complaining for a day afterwards. It's like ripping off the bandaid, instead of doing a slow agonizing pull that lasts months. And yes, I know some people take like 6 weeks to adjust and they will complai…

You know what maybe all schools in the US shouldn't start at 7:30-8:15.

Similar idea with businesses.

Maybe people living in northern latitudes can have a different schedule than than south.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#64

Post by Spartan-S63 »

WarmWash wrote: post #33

Permanent standard time means less sunlight time after work. Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. Changing the clock twice a year fixes that and lets us avoid both, with the only cost being people complaining for a day afterwards. It's like ripping off the bandaid, instead of doing a slow agonizing pull that lasts months. And yes, I know some people take like 6 weeks to adjust and they will complai…

Better solution: Adopt summer and winter hours to follow the sun rather than arbitrarily changing the clocks and interrupting sleep schedule and circadian rhythms.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#65

Post by Nicook »

WarmWash wrote: post #56
willchis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not a software developer, are you ;)? I'm not working on any timezone-aware products right now but I feel for all my brothers and sisters in the trenches if this passes and has to be fixed everywhere!

Even worse than that, it will pass, people will realize it actually sucks, then they we will go back to the quick and nearly painless "rip off the bandaid" approach.

No it wont. There's already one state in the union that has dipsensed with the silly time changes, Arizona. I've lived there for ~7 years while an adult, or about 20% of my life, now live in a time change state again.

Having experienced both I would take the no time change every time. And I have yet to meet anyone who would (small sample size for sure, I'm sure someones done some polling).

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#66

Post by dave78 »

jcranmer wrote: post #19
gwbas1c wrote: post #8

Am I the only person who thinks its odd that my government (US) thinks its can tell me what time to get up and go to bed? Before timezones, "noon" was the point where the sun was the highest in the sky. It seems we should focus on having our timezones be more in line with what "noon" is supposed to be: IE, major population centers should have "noon" close to true noon, with a little more flexibility for rural areas s…

Okay, so you travel from, say, Washington DC to NYC and then you have to set your clock back by... I think it's like 13 minutes? Which is why railroads started instituting time zones in the late 19th century: because it turns out having to recalibrate your watch every hour or so is a recipe for creating train crashes. Railroad time didn't become standard time until the early 20th century, in large part because a lot…

> places like Chicago and New York City are very near the center meridian of their time zone

Chicago is very close to the eastern edge of the Central time zone, though I know that was not true throughout history.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#67

Post by throw0101d »

WarmWash wrote: post #62
throw0101d wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Permanent DST means kids walking to school in the dark. It means much more than that: > Later sunrises and sunsets, as seen with pDST, are associated with multiple long-term health outcomes including increases in stroke, heart attacks, diabetes, obesity, and cancer.[8–10] > The increase in obesity and other cardiovascular health problems show that even if DST were to encourage exercise in some individuals it is not…

I'm going to be dubious of any study that has a call to action section and the author is the vice president of an advocacy group for their cause. It's a little bit of a "we investigated ourselves and found we were right about everything".

> I'm going to be dubious of any study that has a call to action section and the author is the vice president of an advocacy group for their cause.

How about the American Medical Association?

* https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/ama-press-releases/ama...

Or American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery, American Thoracic Society, and American College of Chest Physicians concurring?

* https://www.labmanager.com/new-position-statement-supports-p...

Chronobiologists?

* https://www.chronobiocanada.com/official-statements

* https://www.chronobiology.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/JBR-...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronobiology

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#68

Post by Auracle »

For night owls and teenagers, who already have a hard time in society, Daylight Saving Time makes things far worse. It’s been tried and failed, already, primarily due to school/kids issues. The sun will rise really, really late in the dead of winter in some places. Sleep experts are all pretty much in agreement that permanent Standard Time is better.

I’d be all for permanent Standard Time but there’s no way that’ll happen with the old people in charge of our government. Most of them probably wake up at 4am already.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#69

Post by Auracle »

ghaff wrote: post #37
damnesian wrote: post #3

Studies have been conducted about the safety of sticking to one time. The ones who are the most vulnerable are kids waiting for buses in the dark. We can't move to dynamic school times because we are still working the same paradigm as the industrial revolution- same schedule every day, year in year out. And society is simply too divided and fractured, and the motives too hidden and craven, to decide to move en masse…

To the degree kids are standing around outside, they're already in the dark in northern US states (to say nothing about Canada and areas of Europe) for part of the year even with standard time. And, yes, dynamic school schedules don't work because they need to be synced at some level with work schedules. A one-time shift might work though. I mostly don't have a dog in this hunt. I pretty much set my own schedule abse…

In the northern states, sure. But now you’re expanding it to southern states and places on the edge of the transition zones.

Also, 2 hour late starts for cold are a fairly common thing to happen due to cold in northern states. Now you’re talking about 3 hour late starts.

Re: US House of Representatives takes step to make daylight saving time permanent

#70

Post by jcranmer »

dave78 wrote: post #66
jcranmer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so you travel from, say, Washington DC to NYC and then you have to set your clock back by... I think it's like 13 minutes? Which is why railroads started instituting time zones in the late 19th century: because it turns out having to recalibrate your watch every hour or so is a recipe for creating train crashes. Railroad time didn't become standard time until the early 20th century, in large part because a lot…

> places like Chicago and New York City are very near the center meridian of their time zone Chicago is very close to the eastern edge of the Central time zone, though I know that was not true throughout history.

If you look at the "natural" disposition of the time zones, Chicago is very near the appropriate longitude (90 W) for the median of the time zone. The border between Eastern and Central time zone should be about halfway through Ohio; instead, the Eastern time zone is skewed westward, since Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan wanted to be in the same time zone as NYC.
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