Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 638 posts

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#61

Post by xutopia »

I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time?

He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027.

He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there would be coast-to-coast autonomous driving in 2017.

He promised manned missions to Mars by 2024-2025 in multiple interviews between 2011 and 2016.

He promised in 2016 that there would be solar roofs expansions by 2017 that didn't pan out, he promised AGI by 2025 in 2024.

Elon Musk has repeatedly lied about outcomes of his ventures, gotten crazy valuations based on those exaggerations and now people are starting to finally wake up that he isn't as good as his ego.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#62

Post by tyre »

formvoltron wrote: post #48
lucd wrote: post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

I'm not an investor in SpaceX but I don't think shorting stocks at IPO should be allowed. The market should be given time to settle on a price, and it's unlikely that anyone needs to short it on day 1 for hedging. It's purely price speculation.

Yeah, I know why people _want to_ (betting), but it doesn't serve a broader economic purpose.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#63

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

formvoltron wrote: post #48
lucd wrote: post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

You can short it elsewhere.

Schwab won't let you, because even if you're 95% right, you'll still probably lose 95% of your money...

It's quite difficult to be 100% right...

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#64

Post by toomuchtodo »

tyre wrote: post #62
formvoltron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

I'm not an investor in SpaceX but I don't think shorting stocks at IPO should be allowed. The market should be given time to settle on a price, and it's unlikely that anyone needs to short it on day 1 for hedging. It's purely price speculation. Yeah, I know why people _want to_ (betting), but it doesn't serve a broader economic purpose.

Why is line go up price discovery acceptable, but line go down price discovery not? If the shares are trading, you should be able to short, it’s arbitrary to disallow it. It is quite literally a part of the market settling on a price.

(under the assumption your broker is managing their risk if your losses from a short position potentially exceeds capital available for liquidation if the trade moves against you)

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#65

Post by tyre »

mattkrause wrote: post #60
tyre wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NASDAQ is up 27% in the past 1 year. S&P 500 up 21%, DOW +20%. So, it's doing pretty well!

If the argument is that it's being manipulated, I'm not sure these stats help.

That's fair! I didn't read the comment I was replying to as being about the manipulation but, if so, I agree with their opinion.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#66

Post by tclancy »

tyre wrote: post #62
formvoltron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

I'm not an investor in SpaceX but I don't think shorting stocks at IPO should be allowed. The market should be given time to settle on a price, and it's unlikely that anyone needs to short it on day 1 for hedging. It's purely price speculation. Yeah, I know why people _want to_ (betting), but it doesn't serve a broader economic purpose.

Betting is what everyone who jumped into retail investing and meme stocks does with it, but shorts are a valuable tool in the economy for hedging risk. It also is a good indicator for fraud too.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#68

Post by beaviskhan »

DuckConference wrote: post #34

> has now widened from the initial +175bps to a whopping +231bps doing more than two-thirds of the work. 2.31% spread over treasuries is heading for junk bond status?

It's a lot closer to junk (approx 2.7%) than it is to investment grade (approx 0.8%):

https://www.macrotrends.net/3006/high-yield-spread

https://www.macrotrends.net/3042/us-corporate-bond-spread

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#69

Post by tclancy »

richwater wrote: post #42
lucd wrote: post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

The Nasdaq is a shit index to begin with. There are so many other options.

Always a FTSE truther.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#70

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

tyre wrote: post #65
mattkrause wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the argument is that it's being manipulated, I'm not sure these stats help.

That's fair! I didn't read the comment I was replying to as being about the manipulation but, if so, I agree with their opinion.

I didn't read it about the manipulation either, but neither did I read it as a criticism of the returns.
Post reply on HN