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How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

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Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#61

Post by Beijinger »

mopsi wrote: post #41
999900000999 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article was pretty light on the sheer amount of Western aid provided to Ukraine. The whole thing is a cluster. A ton of Ukrainian people *are* ethnically Russian, particularly in the east. They aren’t exactly going to be ok under a NATO backed regime that’s hostile to Russia. Russia shouldn’t tolerate NATO troops stationed on one of its longest land borders. I guarantee if the Chinese worked out a deal to statio…

> Russia shouldn’t tolerate NATO troops stationed on one of its longest land borders. There weren't any anywhere in Eastern Europe before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine wanted to join NATO, remember?

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#62

Post by Beijinger »

Thraway198 wrote: post #55
Beijinger wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany had 4000 tanks during the cold war. It has now 350, 200 in working condition. She has ammunition for two days, now down to one because they gave a lot to Ukraine. Denmark has give all her ammunition to Ukraine. There is little of equipment left. And nobody willing to fight in the West. For what? For a crumbling economy? Unaffordable house prices? Collapsing social systems because two many immigrants draw from…

This is a pretty ignorant take mate (I thought you were American? I'm not from the EU). All I can say is don't be surprised when your prophet turns out to be wrong.

I have a bunch of passports. But no Russian/Eastern European.

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#63

Post by Beijinger »

vardump wrote: post #31
Beijinger wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The whole thing is a cluster. A ton of Ukrainian people are ethnically Russian, particularly in the east." Yep. Ukraine is not a Nation state, like Germany, or Finnland, or Sweden. Like Belgium, is is deep divided. The division was reflected in each election. Literally, the east voted for one candidate, the west for the other. I slept in a Hostel during the war in Kyiv. There ware Ukrainians and Russian Ukrainians.…

True before the war. Putin did manage to make Ukraine united. The clear majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians support Zelenskyy now.

This must have happened in the last year since I was there in 2024 and this was definately not the case!

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#64

Post by fragmede »

delichon wrote: post #14
rightbyte wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a way to purposly implement Goodhart's Law in a war bureaucracy. Like, the law is a warning but neoliberals might read it differently I guess...

You're worried that they will over-fit on killing enemy invaders, at the expense of something more important? Like what?

Destroying bridges and supply lines, other militarily important objectives that could lead to winning the war faster and more effectively.

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#65

Post by mopsi »

Beijinger wrote: post #61
mopsi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia shouldn’t tolerate NATO troops stationed on one of its longest land borders. There weren't any anywhere in Eastern Europe before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine wanted to join NATO, remember?

1. Wanted in 2008, did not get an invitation, and that was the end of it. Russia invaded in 2014 because of deepening Ukraine-EU trade ties.

2. Most of Eastern Europe has been in NATO for over 20 years and has not seen any permanent stationing of "NATO troops", whatever that means. And the forces that were in Western Europe have seen dramatic decrease since the 1980s, around 5-10x across all key categories (personnel, weapons, etc). The US military is currently undergoing a review with the goal of making further reductions of their presence in Europe.

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#66

Post by Sabinus »

Beijinger wrote: post #60
Sabinus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a particular amount of corruption in mind before Ukraine is disqualified from receiving Western aid, or are you 'just asking questions'? Have the efforts of the Ukrainian anti corruption agencies and the defence of them by the Ukrainian public made any impression on you?

Well, I would not send "aid" to Switzerland too. Does this answer your question?

Not really, no. Per-capita Switzerland is rich, well fortified, and isn't being conquered to punish it for attempting to join a trade bloc. And free countries don't really like their neighbours being conquered by aggressive imperialist authoritarian states.

I'm interested in the criteria that you judge a country of not deserving of aid, especially since it is in the interests of the donor countries that Ukraine not be conquered.

Re: How Ukraine Built a War Fighting State

#67

Post by Thraway198 »

Beijinger wrote: post #62
Thraway198 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty ignorant take mate (I thought you were American? I'm not from the EU). All I can say is don't be surprised when your prophet turns out to be wrong.

I have a bunch of passports. But no Russian/Eastern European.

k? That's not what I was asking.
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