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Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

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Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#61

Post by ramayac »

meaty wrote: post #50

I'm a little surprised at how accepting people are here relating to the Amazon feature in Ubuntu. I would assume that there are a lot of critical thinkers here as comp sci people tend to have that mentality. Possibly not! The usual excuses are "we can turn it off etc" or just shrug it off and carry on. Have you thought long term? If you don't make a stand with this feature, one will eventually be added which can't be…

> The usual excuses are "we can turn it off etc" or just shrug it off and carry on.

Yes, that's what everybody says sadly, it's a very weak stance in a (very) long term problem.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#63

Post by JasonFruit »

reidrac wrote: post #44
rlpb wrote: post #8

"When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers." That's not how I see it. I'd correct this to "When the user performs a global search for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers to perform that search". If a user wants to search his own local files without searching the entire I…

"stop with the hyperbole that is actually misleading to readers about what the real situation is" I wonder if readers do really understand the situation or not. I don't think the hyperbole is a bad idea when features like these should be opted in and not a default for everybody. I don't know if this feature is properly advertised by the system and if there will be someone that didn't know about it. I'm a happy 12.04…

I think Canonical has been appropriately forward with discussion of what the situation is, and who gets information. I think it's an awful idea — who really wants commercial results built into their desktop? — but calling it spyware is disingenuous.

I also think it'll kill adoption of Ubuntu. It made me adopt a different distribution, and I think it will cause others to do the same.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#64

Post by louhike »

belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

Even if I get your point, it sounds like you're trying to imply that the results of the search (documents, email, etc.) are sent, not the search alone, which is completely false.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#65

Post by belorn »

louhike wrote: post #64
belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

Even if I get your point, it sounds like you're trying to imply that the results of the search (documents, email, etc.) are sent, not the search alone, which is completely false.

>"function to search for internal document including a string with company secrets"

Ie, that string is now gone. Some people select rather large parts of a document to find other documents with the exact same data in them. If one were to ask Google, I think they would say that they get everyday multiple page documents sent in a single search request.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#66

Post by harel »

You can always turn it off. You can always use Gnome Shell over Unity (should anyway as its nicer). You can always buy another operating system. You know, vote with your wallet. Ah, wait...

There has to be a price for free. In RMS world everybody is a hacker, everything is free (as in love) and open and nobody needs to eat, kids grow up not costing a penny. But in my world, I understand that sometimes I'm getting something for free that is actually superior to the paid stuff, and sometimes those giving it to me need to feed a kid or two, or buy their Mrs that new outfit on the high street. And since they don't charge me outright they try different things, one of which is trying to sell affiliate links to Amazon. They don't even force me to do it because I can turn it off. But they do it by default hoping that I won't. Its a revenue channel, albeit probably a small one at the end of the day. And you know what, had I used Unity I'd probably keep it on and do my Amazon shopping via the OS to give something back.

I also understand RMS-style extreme is vital to balance out the Corporate extreme of the software world. But come on man, choose your battles better and you'll have my support. This one is a waste of time.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#67

Post by prakashk »

louhike wrote: post #64
belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

Even if I get your point, it sounds like you're trying to imply that the results of the search (documents, email, etc.) are sent, not the search alone, which is completely false.

I did not get the impression that the GP was implying that the search results are sent.

Even if the data sent is made entirely of the search query, then it is troublesome. (Disclaimer: I haven't used this feature, so I do not have first-hand knowledge of how it works.)

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#68

Post by iamtherockstar »

My sister home schools two kids, cooks three squares a day, and doesn't care if someone knows she googled for "bread pudding recipe." They have an old, aging computer, and when I gave an Ubuntu CD to her husband, they were so incredibly grateful.

I see this feature being excellent for her, because she has a bunch of documents on her computer that contain her recipes, and then maybe she'll see a cookbook she might want to buy. Maybe she'll be looking for the days curriculum, and see a book that might help her youngest figure out her multiplication tables.

These are all relatively impractical use cases for the nerds of Hacker News. Ubuntu will still serve their needs, but Canonical wants to "cross the chasm" and have ordinary muggles using Ubuntu. Those people will find all of these features "valuable" and don't actually want to turn them off.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#69

Post by takluyver »

curiousdannii wrote: post #56
justinf wrote: post #18

I'd guess that the only way to really dislodge the Amazon widget would be to make sure it remains unprofitable. If it remains a major talking point and doesn't pull in enough money to compensate for its negative effect on community evangelism, it won't last long. I have mixed feelings about the new system. On the one hand, I respect a lot of what Canonical is doing with linux regarding mainstreaming, streamlining, an…

Amazon postage is prohibitively expensive for those outside the US (except perhaps for those who live in another country where Amazon is based?) The only time I'd ever use Amazon is if I'm after an old rare book which is out of print and Amazon is the only place I can find a second hand copy. And in those times I'd actually be deliberately searching for it, checking many sites in my browser, not casually using Unity!

According to Wikipedia, Amazon has national sites covering North America, most of Europe, Brazil, Japan & China. That's a pretty substantial slice of the world's population.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#70

Post by king_jester »

belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

This is absolutely right. We are free to vote with our feet/wallet, but that doesn't mean our mouths stop working and we can't voice our opinions about why Ubuntu is going in the wrong direction.
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