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UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

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Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#61

Post by EPWN3D »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #46
bhupy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Hence: “which in practice will be arbitrary.” It’s on FIFA to correct for that governance failure by making it less arbitrary via a more universal appeals process. In any case, the rules were followed to the correct decision. It’s just that these rules as written are arbitrarily applied.

It seems like there are contradictory rules, and FIFA is confused about which to apply. 5 days ago, FIFA said there was no appeal process. Yesterday, there was a magic reversal.

The US had no procedural route to get Balogun reinstated. That doesn't mean FIFA can't wave their magic wand to make it happen.

Had FIFA implemented an appeals panel for the tournament, it would've looked at the incident, deemed it a misapplication of VAR and a wrongful red card, and the world would've moved on. Instead because of their incompetence, the only remedy was via their magic wand, which is arbitrary and capricious.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#62

Post by EPWN3D »

ortusdux wrote: post #38
40four wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that there’s anything wrong with the way the rule is written, the issue here is the way VAR was applied. VAR is only supposed to intervene when there is a “Clear and obvious error.” Balugun’s play certainly “endangered the safety of an opponent”, as the red card rule reads. Intent doesn’t matter as far as the rule goes. But the call on the field will always be subject to the referee’s judgement on the fi…

The match commentator I was listening to during this game actually predicted an upgrade to a red once the VAR was announced. Their argument was basically what you said, this looks like a yellow live, and a red when viewed slowed down and in isolation. The question is, is this a flaw or a feature of the VAR system?

For these types of incidents VAR protocol is expressly to not offer the referee a slow-motion replay and to only let him see it in real time. Everyone knows that when you slow this stuff down it always looks worse, so the protocol is designed with that in mind.

That's why this was a misapplication of VAR. The on-field decision was not clearly and obviously wrong, and the manner in which VAR intervened was against their protocols for reviewing this type of incident.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#64

Post by LanceH »

runarberg wrote: post #17
bhupy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal is ultimately entertainment This is something I see so many people forgetting. The net result of this decision is simply that the USA gets to play with their full squad and you have an actually interesting competition. The reason we as a world spend hundreds of millions of dollars to let athletes play a game for a living is pretty much exclusively for interesting competition. It serves no other socially us…

Where is the fun in watching a rigged game. I‘m actually not sure this statement is true. “The goal is ultimately entertainment” is a thought terminating cliché. What about sportsmanship, competition, beauty, experiencing a common cultural phenomena with the entire world, etc? But even if this statement is true, FIFA needs to learn from the failure of Eurovision and see that people are not entertained by watching a r…

The US has been asking that when they get a red card that Messi doesn't get. Or a handball on the goal line is ok for a UEFA company. Or a US goal called back when another UEFA team hauls multiple US players to the ground.

You see where I'm going with this? I just can't seem to get upset that a red card that isn't a red card for other teams is getting rescinded.

I've literally been watching for decades and nobody seemed to care before.

A ref got a call wrong and that's ok and should be doubled down on according to UEFA. Well, UEFA can just view this as the disciplinary committee getting it wrong and they can just live with that.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#65

Post by LanceH »

redwoolf wrote: post #34
phlipski wrote: post #13

The rules need to be updated to better ensure accurate calls. If we can agree that Balogun's red card was overkill because his trip wasn't intentional then there should be a way to reverse the call. And Maradona's "hand of god" goal should have been reversed as well. There should be MORE than one ref on the pitch during these games. And spare me the, "This is how's it's always been" argument... It's the World Cup. Le…

The on the pitch call was not a red card. VAR told the ref to go to the monitors to review and then the red card was given. If the on the pitch call stood, which was the right call, then we wouldn't be having the conversation. The level of scrutiny we place on foot position when determining offsides with VAR is an example of the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law. Offsides was not meant to catch players who w…

> I'm not sure VAR is the net-benefit we think it is.

It is for offside. Offside calls were so egregiously bad it was painful to watch. Any time a defense got burned badly, the flag would go up.

Early 2000's someone watched an entire world cup and found that 25% of offside calls were obviously wrong.

I just rewatched the US v Germany match from 1998, and Kobi Jones was called offside on a breakaway when he was onside by 4 yards when the ball was kicked.

Also, goal line and maybe handball seems to be handled pretty well.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#66

Post by Arodex »

bhupy wrote: post #58
ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The argument I am making is that the competition ceases to be interesting because the US doesn't get to field its best squad on account of a highly controversial on-field decision (itself downstream of a mis-application of VAR). I don’t see much controversy. It is a clear red. Being suspended is the risk you face when challenging that hard. You play with the team you have in the game. Players get injured, suspended…

> I don’t see much controversy. It is a clear red. You're entitled to believe it was a red, but it is objectively controversial. It's not just about what you believe, but what about others might believe. If there are enough people that disagree with you, then it is by definition controversial. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7415223/2026/07/01/folarin-... > You play with the team you have in the game. Players get in…

>The Belgians now need to man up and play the game with a full squad rather than whine about not getting an easy fixture

Oh the irony. Why don't the US man up and play within the rules? You president whined and whined and whined, he does nothing but whining every single day.

You are completely morally corrupt. The Americans are cheaters, and nobody will respect them even if they win. "Pathetic" doesn't even start to describe how feckless people who defend this decision are.

>You're entitled to believe it was a red, but it is objectively controversial.

Who won the US presidential election in 2020?

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#67

Post by bhupy »

Arodex wrote: post #66
bhupy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t see much controversy. It is a clear red. You're entitled to believe it was a red, but it is objectively controversial. It's not just about what you believe, but what about others might believe. If there are enough people that disagree with you, then it is by definition controversial. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7415223/2026/07/01/folarin-... > You play with the team you have in the game. Players get in…

>The Belgians now need to man up and play the game with a full squad rather than whine about not getting an easy fixture Oh the irony. Why don't the US man up and play within the rules? You president whined and whined and whined, he does nothing but whining every single day. You are completely morally corrupt. The Americans are cheaters, and nobody will respect them even if they win. "Pathetic" doesn't even start to…

Yeesh, this conversation has run its course.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#68

Post by tzs »

CodingJeebus wrote: post #8

International football has to be one of the most corrupt communities in sports, which is saying something. Between bribing WC officials to sway votes on World Cup locations and awarding the tournament to a country that saw 6,500 deaths of workers building the stadiums[0], to implementing dynamic pricing at the current World Cup, a move like this feels very par for the course for these guys. 0: https://www.theguardian…

> Between bribing WC officials to sway votes on World Cup locations and awarding the tournament to a country that saw 6,500 deaths of workers building the stadiums

Qatar is a terrible place when it comes to treatment of workers, but that number of deaths is actually unusually low.

The 6500 figure was the deaths for all foreign workers in Qatar over a 10 year period, a country which uses foreign workers for almost all of its labor force (about 95% is foreign). They have around 2 million foreign workers. Compare to the number of citizens of Qatar which is around 400k.

6500 deaths among those foreign workers over that time period works out to a death rate of around 33 per 100k per year.

Compare that to the death rates for males aged 25-34 in the US, which is somewhere in the 160-250 range. I'm comparing to males in that age range because around 80% of the foreign workers in Qatar are male and they are predominantly 25-39.

Qatar's 5-8x lower death rate than the US still could be an indication that they have a serious problem with worker deaths, but to determine that someone would have to dive much deeper into details.

For example a significant component of the US deaths is poisoning (drug overdoses are counted as poisoning). Qatar has a very strong anti-drug policy with little tolerance and harsh penalties, so I'd expect that they don't have many drug deaths.

Same for drunk driving. They also are very intolerant of drunk driving, and consider a driver to be drunk if there is any detectable alcohol in their bloodstream after an accident. (Also, I'd expect most migrant workers don't drive).

The Guardian really should have noticed this and investigated. They really dropped the ball here.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#69

Post by tzs »

Maybe it would have been better for Team USA if it had not been reversed.

Before the reversal the oddsmakers were putting USA vs Belgium at even or slightly in Belgium's favor. After the reversal the oddsmakers had USA as a slight but clear favorite.

I'd expect that if it had not been reversed it might have made USA feel like underdogs with something to prove which sometimes can inspire better play. Also it made have made Belgium overly confident knowing USA was missing its best scorer, which can lead to sloppy play.

After the reversal and the change in the odds USA might have been less inspired and Belgium might have been fired up.

Anyway, whether or not the reversal affected the outcome Belgium slaughtered USA, 4-1, and USA is out.

This annoys me, in a very American way, because whenever USA won a World Cup game Subway was giving a "USA Wins" coupon in their app for a footlong sub for something like $7.99.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#70

Post by croes »

banannaise wrote: post #33

Between this and the C.Ronaldo decision, I wonder if we're headed toward a future change to the automatic red card suspension. Part of what makes a red seem extreme for certain fouls is the automatic suspension. The point of the suspension is to discourage deliberately violent actions when the current match isn't a major concern (i.e. late in games that aren't close, or when the result is largely immaterial). That ob…

Ronaldo was at least banned for the next game before the rest was suspended
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