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EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

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Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#61

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

memoriyato3 wrote: post #58
ralferoo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was and publicly available, although the mainstream press mostly chose to ignore it. My VW hybrid is just over 10 years. The advertising claimed 28 miles on a charge, but the reality was about 18 maximum, with stop-start somewhat less. After a couple of months when it had calibrated, it settled displaying 21 miles for a full charge. 10 years on, and it still reads 21 miles on a full charge, but the reading is l…

I have enabled "charge up to maximum 80%" setting on my phone from day 1, and 2 years later the battery lasts noticeably less. maybe it would have been even worse without that setting.

I wonder if it's because phone thermals are way worse so always heating up?

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#62

Post by ralferoo »

disentanglement wrote: post #57
ralferoo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine trucks would still be diesel, so it'd probably make sense just to remove some of the pumps and replace them with rapid chargers. I doubt the fuel stations themselves will disappear, just cater to a different market. OTOH in the UK at least, I think public charging is way too expensive compared to home charging, so I think most public charging is done out of necessity on long journeys, so the number of peo…

Electric semi trucks have appeared from all major European manufacturers in the last years and I expect them to become dominant even quicker than electric cars on simple cost grounds. Electricity is cheaper than diesel and due to favorable regulations in Europe, for many use cases there is little to no time lost charging and usually also no loss in load capacity.

Good point actually. I guess the maximum 8 driving hours per day works well if they can find a rest point near a charging station.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#63

Post by jusssi »

memoriyato3 wrote: post #58
ralferoo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was and publicly available, although the mainstream press mostly chose to ignore it. My VW hybrid is just over 10 years. The advertising claimed 28 miles on a charge, but the reality was about 18 maximum, with stop-start somewhat less. After a couple of months when it had calibrated, it settled displaying 21 miles for a full charge. 10 years on, and it still reads 21 miles on a full charge, but the reading is l…

I have enabled "charge up to maximum 80%" setting on my phone from day 1, and 2 years later the battery lasts noticeably less. maybe it would have been even worse without that setting.

YMMV. Likewise, I've been using charge to 80% from the start, the phone is approaching 5 years, and I can't say I'd notice the battery being any worse from new.

Bigger issue is that it's been out of OEM updates for 3 years now, which is complete balls considering it's a reputable brand and came with "Android Enterprise Recommended" or whatever that was.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#64

Post by foxglacier »

defrost wrote: post #17
foxglacier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 25000 miles per year, which is high. So the opposite of false.

The comment above is (I would guess) about the eleven years of original battery usage rather than the mileage. The implication being that runs counter to the claim of "calendar age degradation".

Do you mean 11 years is a "long" time? I'd say it doesn't matter how long it was - it ended up better the expected based on the miles, and since it was a high-mileage-per-year car, that supports the claim that degradation is determined (at least more than expected) by calendar years, as cgyv.. claimed. I don't see how it doesn't support his claim.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#65

Post by foxglacier »

imtringued wrote: post #24
foxglacier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 25000 miles per year, which is high. So the opposite of false.

So according to you, the more you degrade the battery, the longer it lasts? Usually you would think that 25000 miles per year over 11 years would degrade the battery faster than the car just sitting around for 11 years.

According to cygv... the more intensely you use the battery, the more miles you get out of it, so kind of yea, the faster you use it, the "longer" it lasts in miles. And this example supports that idea because it was used more intensely than usual and lasted more miles than usual.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#66

Post by defrost »

foxglacier wrote: post #64
defrost wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment above is (I would guess) about the eleven years of original battery usage rather than the mileage. The implication being that runs counter to the claim of "calendar age degradation".

Do you mean 11 years is a "long" time? I'd say it doesn't matter how long it was - it ended up better the expected based on the miles, and since it was a high-mileage-per-year car, that supports the claim that degradation is determined (at least more than expected) by calendar years, as cgyv.. claimed. I don't see how it doesn't support his claim.

It's all moot speculation in the absence of any firm notation of what cgyvbunji considers "calendar age based degradation" to be.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#67

Post by squidbeak »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #45
beloch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If batteries are actually lasting, then it's easy to counter the propaganda. Manufacturers simply need to make sure batteries are replaceable and offer guarantees that they'll be replaced on the manufacturer's dime if they degrade.

That's easy to say when you aren't the one considering adding a huge liability to the companies bottom line. There are also some elements of EV ownership where they require some TLC, like not overcharging them when doing mostly local journeys, not using rapid charging more than necessary etc. If manufacturers were carrying the can it would be easy to let these things go out of the window.

> That's easy to say when you aren't the one considering adding a huge liability to the companies bottom line.

Obliging companies to make repairable products? Removing their right to lock everyone into disposability and overconsumption? And even worse - trimming a sliver of their profits? Damn right, buddy: we can't be having that.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#68

Post by hvb2 »

decimalenough wrote: post #47
memoriyato3 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we have EVs for almost 15 years now, one would imagine some real world data on battery life was collected already, even if not widely shared

Battery chemistries have changed and technology has improved a lot in that time frame. Those 15 year old Nissan Leafs have terrible battery degradation, because they're not liquid cooled (hot = bad) and used batteries that degrade fast (LMO, which autocorrect thinks should be spelled LMAO). Manufacturers learned their lesson and every EV built in the last 5 years is far better on both counts.

The only thing you can fault them for is for how long it took to switch to liquid cooled.

The leafs are fine cars but you're paying for being an early adopter. I bought one used in 2016, used it as a daily commuter till 2025 and then sold it. I don't think any car will ever be as cheap to run as that one....

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#69

Post by small_model »

foxglacier wrote: post #16
small_model wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False "A 2015 Model S with over 265,000 miles on the original battery (85% capacity remaining)"

That's 25000 miles per year, which is high. So the opposite of false.

OP said 'They still die by calendar age based degradation', they don't was my point. They degrade based on charge cycles.

Re: EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Miles

#70

Post by small_model »

stavros wrote: post #14
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They still die by calendar age based degradation Source?

Lithium batteries age even just sitting on the shelf. I fly RC planes and we store our batteries at 3.8V to lengthen their life, but they still deteriorate even when not used. Like anything else, I guess.

But these are not sitting on the shelf are they, they are in a car with all sorts of systems managing the battery (well Teslas do).
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