61–70 of 92 posts
Sadly we failed. Now I’m going to have to buy AC and make an even bigger contribution to global warming.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
An American decided to be smug because Europe suddenly passed the threshold where aircon went from a nice to have to a necessity.
It's interesting that you found the author smug, rather than informative or maybe prosecutorial toward the European elites who ostensibly want to sacrifice the masses at the altar of degrowth.
it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Dutchman, I was so surprised by the contents of this comment that I finally decided to make an account. Bringing up Palestine in this discussion is definitely a choice. Relating them as you have is special. The amount of public figures advocating degrowth is low and declining. And I follow a lot of climate voices.
170k people protested against Israel. Not once. Not twice. Multiple times. For an issue that’s not even in the same continent as them. Everywhere you go you see people’s homes hoisting Palestine flags. You see it in restaurants. Cafes. You see graffiti and flyers. It is definitely not normal levels of interest. It is religious levels of interest. I’m not saying it’s wrong however. The only other event that brings thi…
I think some people are fed up with growth because it seems that growth will not bring the average person so much anymore. It'll definitely bring more and longer extreme heat in the future though. Are you excited about that?
Here the usage of GenAI has already been adopted by so many people. I see the ChatGPT app all around me. I work in an office and all my colleagues use it. I also see a lot of people skeptical about it. Reasons to be skeptical about it are readily available online. So is it weird that some people hold that position to you?
I'm indeed sure that people in third word countries are focused on basic human needs instead of protesting ChatGPT. Seems obvious. Why mention it?
I always struggle to take these sort of posts from people who don't live in "Europe" seriously. Europe is not a unit like the USA is, it's very diverse, and you generally can't neatly extrapolate your observations from one country to all others. It hasn't ever been this hot, this regularly, especially in the northen parts of the continent. Add that to the number of historical building, streets, etc, that really can't…
Even on this AC issue where I would admit that there is less national variance compared to the EU. Yet still, about 90% of the US has AC but there are places like San Francisco where only 50% of buildings have AC. In Berkeley California only 20% of buildings have AC.
Again, on this AC issue I admit has less variance than Europe has, but that builds my point if anything. On other issues Americans can have much more variance than your premise implies. Have you considered the life of an Utah Mormon (who may use food rations in lieu of kitchen furniture) is drastically different than a kid growing up in the Bronx (who may have grew up playing on public outdoor courts and have radical independence since middle school because of the MTA)? Have you compared a rural Appalachian’s lifestyle and culture to that of a SF big tech worker? North New Jersey full of suburban white-collar workers who would have trouble understanding southern New Jersey full of farms who have annual festivities where they compare tractors and catch greased-pigs. I find that even “coastal elites” from SF and NYC — people groups who should be most ideologically/socially aligned due to their shared economic statuses, ability to travel, and many points of cross contamination/communication — don’t fully understand eachother’s drastic ideological and lifestyle philosophical differences very well. Moreover, within just one borough of one city there can be drastic diversity in between its townships: NYC Queens having much more diverse townships than any particular borough in Europe.
Europeans who rely of the premise that America is not diverse I find to be just as dumb as the average American.
I always struggle to take these sort of posts from people who don't live in "Europe" seriously. Europe is not a unit like the USA is, it's very diverse, and you generally can't neatly extrapolate your observations from one country to all others. It hasn't ever been this hot, this regularly, especially in the northen parts of the continent. Add that to the number of historical building, streets, etc, that really can't…
Europeans (and oftentimes Americans themselves) tend to underestimate American diversity. Even on this AC issue where I would admit that there is less national variance compared to the EU. Yet still, about 90% of the US has AC but there are places like San Francisco where only 50% of buildings have AC. In Berkeley California only 20% of buildings have AC. Again, on this AC issue I admit has less variance than Europe…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
170k people protested against Israel. Not once. Not twice. Multiple times. For an issue that’s not even in the same continent as them. Everywhere you go you see people’s homes hoisting Palestine flags. You see it in restaurants. Cafes. You see graffiti and flyers. It is definitely not normal levels of interest. It is religious levels of interest. I’m not saying it’s wrong however. The only other event that brings thi…
Everyone has also seen daily footage coming out of the region of the horrible events. Are you surprised that people have an opinion on that? Moreover, political, financial and military ties between NL and Israel have been well-documented. So it's a bit silly to just discredit it all by saying it's not on the same continent (and therefore irrelevant?). It's also not that far and the country has been trying hard to ali…
https://www.wetenschappelijkbureaugroenlinks.nl/artikelen/gr...
They also advice Post Growth which is degrowth-lite, read the document yourself.
> In fact, the degrowth movement, which is rapidly gaining popularity among activists and scientists, advocates the deliberate scaling back of overproduction and overconsumption to bring the economy back into balance with the living world, in a way that reduces inequality and improves human well-being
https://www.wetenschappelijkbureaugroenlinks.nl/geopolitics-...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's interesting that you found the author smug, rather than informative or maybe prosecutorial toward the European elites who ostensibly want to sacrifice the masses at the altar of degrowth.
There is no "altar" of degrowth in Europe. it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating.
Are you sure? It's about the only place in the world where the philosophy of degrowth ever managed to get a toehold (Amsterdam, Grenoble, Copenhagen, Barcelona and some other bits of Spain).
> it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating.
I think you're attributing smugness and "I told you so" attitudes to text that lacks it, just like I'm attributing a posh British lord's accent to your text. Good day to you sir!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm old enough to remember the 1980's when people largely adopted a strikingly similar "new religion" that advocated for a free South Africa. The Free Tibet "religion" was also a huge thing for a while in the 90's. There are countless other examples. All with varying degrees of success. The point is, there's nothing new about people being passionate about human rights. It has absolutely nothing to do with... well...…
You may not see it but I see the parallels between degrowth and Palestine. Both are sad attempts at replacing religion. Something that brings people together for a common cause.
What a miserable world that would be.
Installing AC feels like admitting defeat. 30 years ago we thought we could stop this thing. Our world leaders came together, listened to scientists and agreed targets. Sadly we failed. Now I’m going to have to buy AC and make an even bigger contribution to global warming.
Let's try one example, going back to sources:
1) Noah Smith writes "Meanwhile, some people at Germany’s Federal Environmental Ministry claimed (falsely) that portable air conditioners don’t work.", linking on a tweet by Andrew Hammel.
https://x.com/AndrewHammel1/status/2070436290915426555
(Hammel, in my opinion, has radicalised since 2015, producing culture war content about Germany for rightwing english-speaking audiences. I remember his old weblog from the 2000s, when he was a mild-mannered expat.)
2) Hammel's tweet shows a screenshot of an infographic which the news magazine ZDFHeute posted on Instagram. We can see those infographics in context, they are basically practical tips. There is the shortened sentence that the Federal Agency for the Enviroment, the Umweltbundesamt, advises against "portable ACs". That is true. But Hammel, I think, goes nuts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DZ6xUPUlpYv/?img_index=2
3) Let's crosscheck with what the Umweltbundesamt actually wrote. We can find that on their homepage:
https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/umwelttipps-fuer-den-alltag/g...
First practical advice how to behave in a heat wave.
Then practical advice for buildings and new construction, awning, isolation, heat pumps, etc.
Thirdly advice for AC, when necessary: energy efficient (it's the Umweltbundesamt after all), no polluting refrigerants, a preference for split AC units, where the radiator is on the outside instead of the inside. They contrast split AC against "portable units" also knows as monoblocks which are by definition not split but where the radiator is on the same unit and the radiator's hot air either goes directly into the room oder has to be transported outside through an open window. Hence the advice against monoblocks.
Additional complication nobody mentions: Practical all windows in Germany are of the tilt and turn type, which makes them not as practical for window AC units, because then the whole window is open. Take a look at the "portable" AC units sold by a national electronics chain:
https://www.mediamarkt.de/de/category/klimaanlagen-100.html
Almost all are inefficient monoblocks, no window units, only one portable split AC the Midea PortaSplit - which is sold out. And rather costly with 850 €.
But the PortaSplit is the best practical option for a lot of Germans, because it's a nation of renters.
In summary:
1) The Umweltbundesamt published practical advice including a preference for split AC units against monoblocks. I find that reasonable.
2) The news magazine ZDFHeute published a very abridged infographic quoting that advice. Could be better.
3) Hammel screenshots that infographic, doesn't crosscheck und rants in his tweet more about a strawman than what the UBA actually wrote.
4) Noah Smith simply believes what he sees on social media, I presume, because it fits his preconceived notions.
5) People on Hacker News ... well. Let's say most of them are not good on nuance on Europe.
...
What makes these discussions so annoying is that there is always a kernel of truth. But to put these kernels into context is work. I'm typing here for over half an hour already, just for randos on the net.
Something I'd like these culture warriors to look on concept like path dependency and cost-benefit. The reason a lot of northern Europe doesn't have AC, is a mixture of multiple things: heatwaves were extremely rare, the famous 2003 was described as a huge outlier. Hence there was a long time not a big market for ACs, hence the inventory and possibilities are spare.
Then a lot of old construction that can not easily modified. I live in a small apartment in a block built in 1904, now under historical preservation. Installing fixed AC would need major investment by the landlord and is often not practical. I think there is only a small wall usable for a per-apartment split AC. A whole-house of whole block unit or even better heat pumps would need major investment for 100s of small apartments here.
And for me, buying a PortaSplit when they are available. I'd like to. But 850 € is far out of my budget (I'm rather poor). And then there is the cost-benefit-analysis: There were only two days this year where the temperature inside was annoying for me. Those old building has 1m thick brick walls which isolate pretty well for the days of a heat wave. We had a few days with 37° C and more. The temperature in my apartment was the most time around 26° C, very slowly heating up. And now it's cooler for the next weeks. I was looking for a meteorological climate diagram for my city and the average temperature for June/July is around 24°. For let's say maybe five nights a year, I won't touch the emergency fund. If I lived differently, maybe under the roof, my calculation were different.
Those are all practical, economical decisions. But Noah Smith invents a whole ideological strawman. If we all were rich, we were living in passive houses or plus energy houses with air-to-air heat pumps. We aren't. It's always money. It's very seldom ideology.