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Thomann takes legal action against Fender

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Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#61

Post by Rendello »

sampo wrote: post #58
codedokode wrote: post #51

On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work. Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

> You can probably No need for "probably". That absolutely works.

"Who says you need to buy a guitar?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_F7aiOvdwE

(technically a "diddley bow": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diddley_bow)

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#62

Post by LocalH »

wavesplash wrote: post #43
codedokode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think people who want to buy a strat, would prefer to buy a Fender strat and not a cheaper copy that has the same shape but might sound worse? I personally do not like the price though.

Fender makes a whole series of Strats at different price points. The challenge is even at the high end Fender has inconsistent QA, so the 'knockoffs' are sometimes way better quality/consistency. See this video for more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU7RUpkXsV0

Can't compete on quality, so compete by attempting to use the courts to bludgeon your competitors. A tale as old as capitalism

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#63

Post by vitally3643 »

codedokode wrote: post #51

On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work. Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

Smartphone chargers had legitimate reason to change. Higher power, faster data, and we learned the hard way that micro usb and all the proprietary connectors before it were fundamentally physically flawed.

Audio hasn't changed at all in the last two centuries. An analog audio signal is fundamental physics and there's nothing to gain or change or improve in any meaningful sense. TRS/phono jacks likewise are just so brute force stupid and rugged that there was never a reason to change.

The connectors and interfaces never changed because the underlying signals never changed because there's nothing to change. Digial electronics on the other hand legitimately have gone through real and worthwhile changes, and been radically redefined many times in the last 60 years.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#64

Post by timschmidt »

codedokode wrote: post #48
wavesplash wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fender makes a whole series of Strats at different price points. The challenge is even at the high end Fender has inconsistent QA, so the 'knockoffs' are sometimes way better quality/consistency. See this video for more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU7RUpkXsV0

I think I watched that video but sadly there is no sound comparison to demonstrate the quality issues.

A lot of guitar quality signals will not show through easily in the sound. Like how easy or difficult it is to fret the strings, how well it stays in tune in a controlled environment over time, fit and finish work, etc. That kind of stuff makes the difference between a guitar that can be played, and a guitar which is fun to play.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#65

Post by nemomarx »

codedokode wrote: post #51

On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work. Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

why would the connector need to change? nothing has come out that's really better for analog signals

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#66

Post by duped »

codedokode wrote: post #34
frankfrank13 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because strats sell. Oddly shaped guitars don't, or at least not for a long time, and would never break into the top 10 best selling guitar shapes.

To be fair there is nothing in the shape that makes it sound better than other guitars; so it is not like those modem chip makers or video codec developers that patent the only optimal way to achieve the goal and prevent anybody from competing. Fender does not prevent anyone from making a better guitar. So I do not like copying. It would be better if everyone used their own unique shape rather than something from 50s…

The argument has nothing to do with the sound. A strat style guitar is characterized by:

- Flat top

- Solid body, typically softer/lighter woods

- Bolt-on neck (as opposed to set or through-body)

- Double cutout (as opposed to single/no cutout, V, or other irregular shaped necks) with a longer cutout on top compared to the bottom

- Carved cavity in the top of the body

- "Loaded" pickguard (electronics mounted to it, instead of the body)

- Straight jack mounted into the pickguard

- "Tummy tuck" carved in the back

- Fat/flat shaped bottom of the body like a tele, as opposed to rounded like an LP.

All of these are functional properties of the guitar that have tradeoffs and benefits compared to other designs.

You can have two strats sound completely different but look identical to the untrained eye and the reason for preferring the style has a lot to do with the weight of the instrument and how that weight is distributed when playing standing, and how the body fits in your hands/arms and against your body. There's an argument to be made that the strat is near optimal for comfort in playing.

If you look at competing designs that (PRS McCarty, Ibanez, Schecter, Gretsch - basically anyone) the specific curves may be different but they all look like a Strat because it's genuinely hard to design a different body that feels the same.

The St Vincent signature is one style that I think needs to get more popular but it's not for everyone.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#67

Post by mirsadm »

codedokode wrote: post #26
frankfrank13 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because strats sell. Oddly shaped guitars don't, or at least not for a long time, and would never break into the top 10 best selling guitar shapes.

But I think people who want to buy a strat, would prefer to buy a Fender strat and not a cheaper copy that has the same shape but might sound worse? I personally do not like the price though.

I'm looking at buying one now and as far as I can tell Fender seems to make shoddy quality instruments these days. I see a lot of recommendations for PRS and others.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#68

Post by codedokode »

jdietrich wrote: post #52
codedokode wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But technically the guitar does not have to have a shape of a strat. It could be any other shape, why not be creative and make your own design?

Ergonomics. Any solid-body guitar that's designed to be comfortable when played sitting or standing will converge on a strat-ish body shape. You can make a computer mouse in any shape, but the shape of a comfortable mouse is constrained by the shape of an average human palm. The various curves and bevels on the Stratocaster aren't arbitrary aesthetic features, they're affordances to fit the human body. Change them to…

But, for example, are those horns (?) necessary for ergonomics? Do the potentiometers and output jack have to be positioned like that? Does the pickguard has to be the same shape? I do not think so. Les Pauls have different shape and are pretty popular too.

> Ola Strandberg set out to design the most ergonomic guitar possible

It looks somewhat ... not how you expect the guitar to look.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#70

Post by grayhatter »

ben7799 wrote: post #33

I play guitar, I own a Fender guitar and a Fender amp, along with another non-fender amp and 2 other non Fender guitars. I'm just super sick of hearing about this story. Guitar players online are way too worked up about this. Fender is being annoying, but there is no way I'm getting rid of my Fender guitar or amp over this, and there is no way any of this would stop me from buying another one. The Fender shapes just…

It's really impressive how you could apparently argue so strongly for Fender's defense: but the message that I took away was Fender is obviously the bad guy in this story, and I want nothing to do with them... and I haven't even clicked on the new tab for the story yet.
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