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DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

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Re: DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

#61

Post by mmooss »

eesmith wrote: post #60
mmooss wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the airplane.

Yes, the steam powered airplane is a dead-end branch in the development of the airplane. Unlike most of the dead-end branches, it actually worked, in a limited technical sense. Most research and technological development fail, and most of those which succeed in a technical sense end up being worse in a practical sense than other alternatives. There are a lot of gadgets where "the creators and innovators are told they…

> That doesn't change the face that most research and technological development fail

I agree. So what? If you have a better way, you will no doubt be very, very successful and your name will be in history books.

But so far nobody has a better way. It follows that we cannot predict which R&D will fail to be developed or fail to be useful - otherwise we wouldn't have so many failures. And therefore the claim upthread, that they know now the future outcome of this research, is false.

Re: DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

#62

Post by hawaiianbrah »

scottlamb wrote: post #45
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Island hopping is a niche where electric flight might get started. Hawaii is looking at running some next year. https://www.sfgate.com/hawaii/article/hawaii-electric-airpla...

As I understand it, Hawaii had environmental concerns with ferries (requiring a review that was never completed), specifically whale/ship strikes and the risk of car-carrying ferries transporting invasive species between the islands. [1] I'm unsure if other islands would have similar concerns about cargo ships or not or if the environmental review would have been satisfactory if they'd just done it on time. I'd expec…

The super ferry was incredible. Being able to drive your car on a different island was such a game changer vs buying flights for the fam and then having to rent a car. I miss it!

Re: DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

#63

Post by ZeroGravitas »

An interesting comparison would be a standard cargo ship that goes as slow as possible.

"Slow steaming" is already in use and has some dramatic impacts on fuel use.

The limit seems to be "hotel loads" i.e. constant loads needed for crew, but the sailboat will have those as well and not spread over as much cargo.

It's entirely possible that a sail boat that follows the wind might be higher carbon per cargo kg than a giant standard ship going very slowly directly to the port.

Re: DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

#64

Post by pseudohadamard »

strongpigeon wrote: post #6

At the risk of sounding overly negative, these things are pretty much always vanity projects. Someone wanted a really cool boat and managed to get some investors onboard. It’s more about an aesthetic than a business case. We’re talking here about a fairly large crew that will transport a small amount of cargo while taking a really long time. On top of that, these aren’t container ship so loading/unloading will take a…

Is it powered by a windmill from a miniature golf course going out of business? I know some guys who built one like that once, but it sank on its maiden voyage.

Re: DHL Set to Transport Goods on New Wind-Powered Cargo Ships

#65

Post by eesmith »

mmooss wrote: post #61
eesmith wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the steam powered airplane is a dead-end branch in the development of the airplane. Unlike most of the dead-end branches, it actually worked, in a limited technical sense. Most research and technological development fail, and most of those which succeed in a technical sense end up being worse in a practical sense than other alternatives. There are a lot of gadgets where "the creators and innovators are told they…

> That doesn't change the face that most research and technological development fail I agree. So what? If you have a better way, you will no doubt be very, very successful and your name will be in history books. But so far nobody has a better way. It follows that we cannot predict which R&D will fail to be developed or fail to be useful - otherwise we wouldn't have so many failures. And therefore the claim upthread,…

Your comment "Or most research and technological development requires years or generations ..." has an implicit but important missing qualifier.

"Or most SUCCCESSFUL research and technological development requires years or generations of experimentation and failure before success."

Most research and technological development fail, which is why creators and innovators may be told they are wasting their time by looking at well-traversed, almost certain dead ends in hopes of finding a new, long-overlooked path, rather than putting their efforts into R&D more likely to succeed.

We can absolutely predict that some R&D will fail to be useful - I mentioned a few. Here's another - a radium-powered reading lamp.

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