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Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

dancemagazine.com

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Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#61
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The US Army already recognized this problem and developed the Munson last before WWI. Some mid and high-end footwear brands produce boots with Munson or Munson-like lasts. It helps tremendously. I cannot go back to narrow toeboxes. Oddly, lots of sports footwear suffers from the same issue and wide toeboxes are not as popular as they should be.

Any recommendations for the brands? I am looking for Derbies and Chukka boots

Red Wings apparently have some Munson lasts, mentioned when I was investigating the topic earlier, though I don't know for which models or if they match what you're looking for.

They have an excellent quality reputation, though new boots are spendy. Used show up occasionally.

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#62
This is an interesting dynamic with a number of elements in play which might have carry-over to other realms of new technology adoption (or resistance):

- A small and specialised market.

- Numerous gatekeepers, each of whom might exert a veto (dancers, teachers, company directors, etc.).

- Highly subjective judging criteria, with benefits or limitations of alternatives not being evident possibly for a long time.

- A high level of highly-interdependent skills. A dancer's performance literally turns on her shoes, and a whole set of muscle-memory, training, technique, and expectations are based on a familiar product. Changing this is probably anxiety-producing.

- Careers are relatively short, lasting perhaps 10--20 years, rarely longer. Taking big risks on equipment may have low appeal.

Balancing all of this, if there does turn out to be some spectacular advantage to new kit, it's possible that change could happen rapidly. This has been the case elsewhere in the sports world. Shoes for runners, footballers (world or American, take your pick), swimmer's costumes, skiing equipment, etc., have all changed radically over the past 50 years (and were changing well before that). Ballet has strong traditions, but those might well bend.

If you're looking at this from a tech-adoption / tech-rejection / product-management hat, you might consider what the landscapes you're facing or contemplating look like relative to the ballet world, which conditions are similar or different. Small markets might be more resistant to change, though if there's fierce and unambiguous performance differentiation you might have an edge. Vetocracy is a concept gaining awareness in numerous disciplines. Highly-gate-kept or regulated fields tend to advance more slowly. Tightly-coupled systems evolve less quickly than loosely-coupled ones. Long run-times, careers, or organisational viability might allow for greater risk taking, or at least the opportunity for new entrants to launch trying different tools.

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#63
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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Things in Galt’s Gulch must be pretty crazy since they put in wifi

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#64
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No shoes last longer than well fitting well made all leather shoes.

I feel like everyone is reading "leather shoe" and interpreting it as "dress shoe," but tennis shoes/trainers are usually leather, too. Sandals, moccasins, etc. Leather is a material. My ON running shoes are leather. My legit hiking shoes are leather. So are the kung fu shoes I used twenty years ago to fly through the fucking air with swords.

Leather shoes are shoes or boots made of leather, cork, and optionally steel and rubber. They last a really long time.

A shoe that has a leather upper and EVA foam makes up the rest of it is not a leather shoe. It’s a shoe with a leather upper.

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#65
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, fine, but how on earth is the posted article submission even on-topic for the site? And for the front page?

Anything that gratifies intellectual curiosity is on topic for HN! - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That doesn't mean it has to gratify your curiosity or mine - no single article can do that for everyone. But it's clear that that's what makes the article on topic. One other aspect: the best HN submissions are the ones that are most uncorrelated with anything else that's gotten attention recently - o…

Hi dang, sorry to ping you here again. I emailed back about a week ago but haven't heard back. My posts are still showing up as [dead] immediately after submission even with non-dev.to URLs. Would appreciate it if you could take a look when you get a chance. Thanks!

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#66

While we’re on the topic, on the last year, NPR interviewed an expert who warned of lifelong debilitating injury (pain walking) that dancers developed by going en pointe too young. The woman recommended waiting until 15. But searching for this to share with dancers, I cannot find the interview now. Did NPR retract this?

Can you give us anything more to go on as to where or how you heard this?

Was it NPR specifically, or your local NPR affiliate?

Keep in mind that "NPR" programming often consists of actual network programming, independent works distributed by NPR, and productions from either affiliated subnetworks (e.g., "MPR", Minnesota Public Radio, PRI/PRX, APM), and in cases individual affiliate stations (WBUR, WAMU, WNYC, WHYY, KQED, KOUW, KUTX, KCRW, etc.), or other noncommercial radio networks (e.g., Pacifica). And increasingly podcasting networks.

Using NPR's site search, the most recent story focusing on a specific ballerina's injury story is from 2017, on Fresh Air (WHYY) "From Injury To Recovery, A Ballerina Fought To Retire On Her Own Terms" https://www.npr.org/2017/07/10/536434340/from-injury-to-reco...>. It's possible that that replayed more recently. Or that you're loosely anchored in time.

There's a story more closely matching your description, though focusing on gymnastics, in USA Today, March 2026, "How two painful sports stories underscore girls' unique injury risks" https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2026/03/08/girls-great...>

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#67
One aspect not well defined in the article is that pointe shoes for professional dancers are tailored items, needing to meet a very specific, individual profile. The shoes that many professional dancers use are hand crafted and heavily customized/made to order for each dancer, who then proceeds to make their own set of adjustments to the delivered shoe: https://www.freedoflondon.com/pointe-shoes/ Ballet is a high precision art form (think playing the violin with your whole body), with different roles/ parts having different requirements for shoes. The shoes are modified to fit each role, some needing a more pliable shoe, and some needing a firmer one. In this case the fact that the shoes can degrade and are able to be tuned/ molded to the need of the current production is a desired trait. However the takeaway is that it's a high precision, variable environment and shoes that can't meet the required operating window aren't useful (either from degradation or design, think tires on a racecar). In regards to newer types of shoes, them being more dependable and longer lasting also makes them less customizable by the dancer - improving their longevity fixes their useful window to a specific operating range. Many of the other arguments are indeed correct - however no product offers the individual tailoring a master craftsman can offer on a platform flexible enough for heavy modding that's better than the current favorites. Some generalizing on my part however IMO this is the crux of the issue in terms of resistance to adoption of new production techniques/ materials

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendations for the brands? I am looking for Derbies and Chukka boots

Red Wings apparently have some Munson lasts, mentioned when I was investigating the topic earlier, though I don't know for which models or if they match what you're looking for. They have an excellent quality reputation, though new boots are spendy. Used show up occasionally.

More:

Brands such as Rolling Dub Trio and John Lofgren use Munson lasts that closely resemble the original shape; other makers, such as Nicks Boots, Viberg, and Iron Boots have lasts that draw direct inspiration from that shape.

https://www.stitchdown.com/info/munson-last-origins/>

There are also results from an online search, though prices are ... high. I'm seeing $600+ for boots advertised as built on Munson lasts.

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#69

While we’re on the topic, on the last year, NPR interviewed an expert who warned of lifelong debilitating injury (pain walking) that dancers developed by going en pointe too young. The woman recommended waiting until 15. But searching for this to share with dancers, I cannot find the interview now. Did NPR retract this?

Can you give us anything more to go on as to where or how you heard this? Was it NPR specifically, or your local NPR affiliate? Keep in mind that "NPR" programming often consists of actual network programming, independent works distributed by NPR, and productions from either affiliated subnetworks (e.g., " M PR", Minnesota Public Radio, PRI/PRX, APM), and in cases individual affiliate stations (WBUR, WAMU, WNYC, WHYY…

My memory was that this was an NPR story, the local affiliate has distinct production values that I believe I would have noticed. However, even searching the local affiliate's site only yielded the stories you referenced.

Re: Why has the pointe shoe been so resistant to change?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give us anything more to go on as to where or how you heard this? Was it NPR specifically, or your local NPR affiliate? Keep in mind that "NPR" programming often consists of actual network programming, independent works distributed by NPR, and productions from either affiliated subnetworks (e.g., " M PR", Minnesota Public Radio, PRI/PRX, APM), and in cases individual affiliate stations (WBUR, WAMU, WNYC, WHYY…

My memory was that this was an NPR story, the local affiliate has distinct production values that I believe I would have noticed. However, even searching the local affiliate's site only yielded the stories you referenced.

My only other suggestion is that stories often get shopped around and carried by multiple outlets. If you're anything like me, "the past year" might actually be the past five years, or more. There's often a study, book, institute, or specific investigator/doctor behind the story. If you really want to track down the story you might try broadening your search on those dimensions. (Or others which come to mind.)

Good luck!

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