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Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

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Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#61

Post by vintermann »

bigpeopleareold wrote: post #17

The first time I heard about this was last week when I was listening to the economic issues that the article mentions on NRK "political quarter" (NRK is the national broadcaster) with the word "waste" being thrown around a lot. This article from VG debates the cost and puts it into contrast what could have been done instead: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q6k3ko/skipstunnelen-er-historis... ... it's been contentious as…

It's also a bit of a farce. The largest party in government (Labour) has repeatedly said no, this is stupid, it's too expensive, it's not worth it. Their junior partners, however, want it. And then one of the "fiscally responsible" opposition parties signaled that they would support the tunnel. So to avoid the junior partners splitting off and agreeing on a budget with the opposition, Labour now supports the tunnel too.

No doubt it will cost a ton and be derided as a boondoggle/used as justification for austerity by the conservative wing which indirectly made it happen.

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#62

Post by SoftTalker »

pwg wrote: post #56
mkl wrote: post #7

Having no map is weird. Wikipedia has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stad_Ship_Tunnel

> Having no map is weird. Yes, a failure of both the journalist and the editor. Sadly, this kind of failure is all too common. I encounter articles that often omit a photo of the "thing" the article is describing. This (no photo) might have made some sense fifty years ago in the heyday of paper print where including a photo was much more work. But today, for HTML publishing, it is just an indication of failure on the…

50 years ago was 1976. Pretty sure there was no particular problem incuding photos or illustrations in paper journalism at that time. Maybe for very low-budget newsletters it would have been.

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#63

Post by fuoqi »

I wonder how much would it cost to build a tunnel as an alternative to the Panama canal to fundamentally resolve the drought issues. 1.8 km is comparable to ~80 km (probably a shorter tunnel will suffice) and dimensions are also similar (at least for the old Panamax).

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#64

Post by msandford »

ceejayoz wrote: post #42
Someone wrote: post #36

FTA: Norway will start building the first full-size ship tunnel in the world And “Full-size” means what? Sea-faring? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_tunnel lists several tunnels that ships can pass through, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rove_Tunnel , to me, seems to have supported decently sized ships.

There's no solid definition of "boat" versus "ship", but those are clearly a different scale.

I always thought it had to do with which way the vessel leaned while turning. Boats will lean into the turn, ships out. I guess that really only tells you if that's a displacement hull or planing hull, though.

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#65

Post by ceejayoz »

msandford wrote: post #64
ceejayoz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no solid definition of "boat" versus "ship", but those are clearly a different scale.

I always thought it had to do with which way the vessel leaned while turning. Boats will lean into the turn, ships out. I guess that really only tells you if that's a displacement hull or planing hull, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship calls that "a US Navy rule of thumb".

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#66

Post by SoftTalker »

ews wrote: post #30
dgellow wrote: post #22

Only 4 years of work to be ready? That sounds pretty optimistic ( crying in German )

not 40 years? seriously ??? (cries in Californian)

I guess one advantage of building a lot of tunnels is you learn how to build tunnels and become able to do it reliably and affordably (at least as affordably as something like tunneling through solid rock can be done).

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#68

Post by internet_points »

vintermann wrote: post #61
bigpeopleareold wrote: post #17

The first time I heard about this was last week when I was listening to the economic issues that the article mentions on NRK "political quarter" (NRK is the national broadcaster) with the word "waste" being thrown around a lot. This article from VG debates the cost and puts it into contrast what could have been done instead: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q6k3ko/skipstunnelen-er-historis... ... it's been contentious as…

It's also a bit of a farce. The largest party in government (Labour) has repeatedly said no, this is stupid, it's too expensive, it's not worth it. Their junior partners, however, want it. And then one of the "fiscally responsible" opposition parties signaled that they would support the tunnel. So to avoid the junior partners splitting off and agreeing on a budget with the opposition, Labour now supports the tunnel t…

There's also a bit of east/west rivalry going on. Politicians and newspapers based in the east deride it, those in the west cheer it on. (Compared to the yearly budget the per-year cost doesn't seem like a big deal, but I don't know enough to have a strong opinion.)

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#69

Post by Epa095 »

varjag wrote: post #14
nairboon wrote: post #10

That's kind of cool. Norway also has roundabouts in tunnels. I guess they like tunnels.

Most of the Norway's Western coast (basically the extent of the country) is mountainous so building infrastructure there inevitably involves blasting the rock. At the same time the country is huge, bigger than Germany or the UK. So naturally a lot of tunnels. This one a bit special: most of the boat traffic through it are meant to be ferries so it is to be commissioned and managed by the National Road Authority. At t…

Are you in the lisp company? If so, how is it? Hard to get people? Or is it a geek-magnet?

Re: Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel

#70

Post by fpoling »

varjag wrote: post #51
lb1lf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To stress how prolific tunnels are - if I drive from my home near Aalesund on the northwestern coast to the family seat at Voss (a bit inland from Bergen), some 360km/220mi or so, more than 1/4 of that distance is in tunnels. Can't remember how many, but dozens.

I think if you drive just the Bergen-Voss-Nordheimsund-Bergen circuit (some 200km?) that alone is 60 tunnels, and many of them are longer than what most countries have.

A few years ago I counted 42 tunnels on 100 km between Voss and Bergen center.
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