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10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

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Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#61

Post by protocolture »

throw0101c wrote: post #60
PaulKeeble wrote: post #27

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now h…

> I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. How many consumer devices have an ((Q)SFP(+)) optical cage? If you're in their pulling stuff anyway , sure, do some OS2, but for most people, for most devices, Cat 5e/6 is more useful, especially since you can do POE(+(+)) over it as well. 5e/6 gets you 10GbE to 55m, and 6A to 1…

Personally, if I was building a house, anywhere I want significant non wifi hardware would have a switch anyway.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#63

Post by throw0101c »

thefz wrote: post #37
drnick1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need, because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use. I experimented with SFP for a while, but ultimately concluded that it isn't worth the effort to add SFP cards to PCs now that that low-power 10G Ethernet chips like the RTL8127 are available. High-end motherboards already have 10G Ethernet and soon lower-end models will too. 2.5G is practically standar…

Ever ran a single mode bidi fibre in a conduit? Push a wire puller, cleave and terminate ends, done. Zero effort unlike pulling a jacketed CAT7 cable, zero worries from electrical interference too, future proofing up to 40GBps. I ran double strands in my house so in case one breaks, there's another. The floors where native fibre is not needed have a cheap ethernet media converter from fs.com, everything else (3 floor…

If your walls are ripped open, then sure run some OS2 everywhere, but Cat 6A gets you 10GbE at 100m, but even 'only' Cat 5e or (plain) 6 gets you that speed up to 55m (per 802.3an):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#10GBASE-T

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Var...

Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#64

Post by brianwawok »

Keyframe wrote: post #52
PaulKeeble wrote: post #27

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now h…

I did just that relatively recently in a house we bought. OS2 single mode duplex throughout the house, all converging to a trunk which is available in three locations for equipment. It's basically future proof, but also has its own well, things. You can't really plug into a duplex (I wish though), you have to put a small switch to it with SFP+ or 28 or whatever the speed you want. Higher speed switches are also a tad…

I did this and used little $129 Zyxel SFP+ to 2.5G copper switches to get to my access points. Has been running smooth!

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#65

Post by brianwawok »

cbdumas wrote: post #29
PaulKeeble wrote: post #27

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now h…

There are probably still a lot of cases where you would want PoE though right? Cameras, WAPs, etc.

Waps are next to power, some even have SFP+ ports

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#66

Post by simoncion »

ciupicri wrote: post #49
simoncion wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regular people don't know this stuff... Regular people don't know whether to get Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat7. So... yeah. > ...OM3/OM4/OM5? Single mode/Multi mode? LC/SC?... My answer is OM4, Multi-mode [0], LC. OM3, 4, and 5 will all work at 10gbit for any run you'd expect to make in most houses. I chose cable grade based on what was in stock at the local store. I chose connector type based on what fit into my NICs…

> Regular people don't know whether to get Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat7. What are you talking about. It's right in the manual for some switches like the TP-Link TL-SX105 V4 [1]. It's not even an expensive or fancy one. Network Media (Cable) 100BASE-TX: 2-pair UTP/STP of Cat. 5 or above (maximum 100 m) 1000BASE-T: 4-pair UTP/STP of Cat. 5e or above (maximum 100 m) 2.5GBASE-T: 4-pair UTP/STP of Cat. 5e or above (maximum…

   Regular people don't know whether to get Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat7.
> What are you talking about. ... If you're too lazy to read the [rare] manual [that contains advice on the topic] you could probably ask chatgpt, gemini whatever. Or you could ask the guy from a store. A run of the mill store, not some crazy hobbyist store.

I can query Google, an LLM, or a run of the mill cancer doctor for information on how to treat my stage 1 melanoma. That I can learn how to treat stage 1 melanoma doesn't mean that I know how to treat stage 1 melanoma.

> [Fiber optics are so complicated.] [With copper, all] you need to know is the speed and perhaps the length although I think only "the 1%" will need more than 55 meters :-)

For a 55 meter run, all you need to know is "Buy the cheapest multimode two-strand fiber your vendor has in stock. It's going to have LC ends, so get LC multimode optics.". You don't even have to worry about the speed of the transceivers to use this advice.

As an aside: Wow. That's [0] pricey for a dumbswitch that you also can't ever switch over to fiber. You can get a managed switch with four 10gbit cages, five 1gbit cages, and one 1gbit port for fifty bucks less [1], or a (physically much smaller) managed switch with four 10gbit cages and one 1gbit port for about the same price as that five-port TP-Link dumbswitch. [2]

TP-Link is absolutely raking in the dough on that unit.

[0] https://www.newegg.com/tp-link-tl-sx105/p/0XP-001U-007G7> (apparent MSRP of 280->300 USD)

[1] https://www.newegg.com/p/0XP-002R-000Y8?Item=9SIAEFKHB37914> (MSRP 200 USD)

[2] https://www.newegg.com/p/0XP-002R-00108?Item=9SIB7VEJJD1334> (MSRP 150 USD)

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#67

Post by bigfatkitten »

simoncion wrote: post #44
bigfatkitten wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go with single mode only for new installs. Biggest install cost is labour. The cable and optics are cheap now, and with the future (200Gbps+) being multiple wavelengths in parallel[1], we’ve pretty much hit the end of the road for MMF. [1] https://www.tiafotc.org/ieee-802-3-ethernet-standards-update...

> Biggest install cost is labour. Okay? If I had to run cabling through a wall, I'd make sure the guy sets it up so that I can use the cable he installs to pull new later. My time's free when I'm doing something that I don't mind doing, and I don't mind easy cable pulls. > ...(200Gbps+)... Don't you need 16x PCIe 4.0 for those guys? With everything other than workstation and server boards having exactly one 16x slot,…

MMF cable is quite a bit more expensive than SMF. The cost savings used to be in optics, but that distinction has fallen away.

Everyone needs a hobby, so if you want to replace the cable later on nobody’s going to stop you.

There was a time when we couldn’t buy a PC that could saturate 1Gbps ethernet, and that time wasn’t that long ago. Your cabling plant will outlive any hardware you buy today.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#68

Post by gpjt »

xxpor wrote: post #53

I think this is the first time one of my comments has ever gotten mentioned in a subsequent post, so that's cool :) Glad it was helpful and not me being an idiot. That's a shame about the temp read out. I just checked my MikroTik and can see the same thing. In fact, the only SFP module reporting a temperature at all is the real fiber one, all of the DACs/converters report nothing. No voltage either.

Thanks for making the comment! It saved me having to bolt a USB fan over the old, misbehaving SFP+ module or something similarly silly...

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#69

Post by gpjt »

tcdent wrote: post #18

If you are implementing 10 GBE at distances less than 5-7 m, I highly recommend standardizing on DAC cabling. It removes the need for these kinds of conversions that create these kinds of heat signatures.

OP here -- yes, 100%! Within my study it's DACs all the way. I only use 10GBASE-T where it's the only option: through the wall cabling, and from the connector on my ISP's crappy router to the mini-PC that acts as the real router.
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