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Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

economist.com

61–66 of 66 posts

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From "might makes right" is Tongan because the Tongans were able to take it. From the perspective of homesteading, owning the fruit of your labor, etc I think you can argue since the Minervans both made the island, homesteaded, "discovered" (didn't exist until they made it), and claimed and were actively using it they have senior property rights (you can argue any of these individually but in summation it's quite wei…

If you can't defend your land, somebody else will eventually take it. That's kind of why governments were invented in the first place.

(1) They were minarchist not anarchist, so not sure what your point is about government; they weren't looking to re-invent government defense privately or some such, rather their failure mode was ultimately political alienation manifested in violence (rest of world in that area hated/afraid of the possible prospect of successful libertarians upsetting the status quo and thus called to action to squash them at once). They likely could have survived with the same weak military under a different more palatable political model that makes Australia and Tongans happy face, because in reality Aus+polynesia had no interest in actually taking the land for themselves only expelling libertarians.

(2) Yes they were militarily weaker than the entire coalition of australia + polynesia under the flag of Tonga for invasion, this applies to pretty much all sovereign islands in the Pacific, there is no particularly special lesson to be learned here about polynesian military might -- even the Tongans were ultimately proxying Australia and would find the same fate if Australia disliked their political model.

(3) The takeaway Michael Oliver did actually learn (dude was a legit genius) from this is if you find any success "democratic" countries that preach tenants of peaceful property rights actually are just frauds running under the cold veneer of "whoever can kill and steal, gets the land."

(4) The next "adventure" by the same foundation used lethal force to defend themselves (Vemerena), and IIRC it did survive a bit longer. (There were three major attempts by Phoenix foundation, one was making a new island island, another a civil war-ish breakoff nation in Vanuatu, and another an attempt at civil democratic secession in the Bahamas-- the one defended by armed actors was arguably got the closest to success)

(5) Thus ultimately we can see the property rights model of modern democratic countries are no better than the founding libertarian models, it's just violently taking whatever you can get away with whenever you can get away with it wrapped up under more flowery language than what the libertarians used and with generally higher tax rates. We see this continually whether it is libertarians or communists, the bigger democratic countries will just fuck their shit up as a mode of political alienation whether they have a "government" or not.

(6) Conclusion is duration of survival of small territories of Minerva, communists, et al has little to do with their philosophical model of property rights. Has more to do with forming allies (Cuba with Russia for instance) and/or military might. None of which is philosophically incompatible with the Minervan model of minarchism.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#62

These projects obviously have limited success. I found it interesting to learn about a couple that were very successful, though. 1) the Republic of Venice from 7th to 18th centuries, basically a merchant-run state controlled by a tight circle of wealthy traders. Its whole setup revolved around safeguarding trade and property and staying clear of the Catholic church and European kings. 2) the Republic of Ragusa from 1…

If you consider them libertarian projects they failed. That's the thing about libertarianism - to succeed it needs to reinvent stuff that it is so opposed to. Venice and Ragusa (and Genoa) were oligarchic states, had laws, and used force to enforce these laws. Civic liberties were suspended or heavily restricted.

[deleted]

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#63
post #4

https://archive.is/gWfRv This article is about a project called "Destiny" ( https://destiny.com ), an economic zone to be created in an undeveloped region of Nevis (of St. Kitts & Nevis) The project goal is to become like Dubai with a 50m dollar investment, which I don't think is an admirable goal btw. St Kitts & Nevis has had a history of being friendly to crypto and there was an initiative to make bitcoin cash lega…

> The project goal is to become like Dubai with a 50m dollar investment

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

To "become like Dubai" they'd need at least another 3 orders of magnitude on that investment.

For reference, the university I worked at until last year recently renovated the building I was working in. It was a fairly standard-sized academic building for a small liberal arts campus—three stories, with roughly 3-8 classrooms on a side. The renovation was the replacement of its HVAC system, and adding a fairly small "bump-out" addition on one of the short sides, of roughly one medium-large classroom's width.

It cost $35 million.

$50 million would build maybe a couple of decent-sized buildings, or a handful of smaller ones. No skyscrapers. Nothing fancy.

Certainly nothing like Dubai.

(According to Wikipedia, when it was built, the Burj Khalifa alone cost $1.5 billion. With a "b".)

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I been to St. Kitts & Nevis. The only thing I can remember is the very stark contrast between the commercialized beaches versus where the locals lived, and the roaming cows everywhere. Nevis (the baseball) was only boat accessible, and St. Kitts (the bat) is mostly hills of national park. Vast majority of things must be flown or shipped in. I am hard pressed to see some "techno libertarians" doing techno without Amaz…

>Vast majority of things must be flown or shipped in. I am hard pressed to see some "techno libertarians" doing techno without Amazon/Temu/Walmart/ in 24h drop ship. I think this is an unreasonable bar. All the fertile land in the world has been accounted for. There's no way to accomplish that type of sustainability without conquering existing land or some major technological breakthrough. I think a fair bar would be…

I am not sure i understand what you are writing.

What is your definition of "techno libertarians"? asking because my understanding is that their primary work and concentration of work is not agriculture; there is no need for "fertile land". They can build stuff on a rock like Hong Kong.

I image this as a bunch of F/LOSS techno peeps living in condos or town homes with postage stamp grass to take care of. they would run off to the shore to do some water activities, go into the town and do some restaurants and some such.

Basically, this reads like an attempt to anchor digital nomads.

Re: Techno-libertarians are flocking to the Caribbean

#65
The recent citations are definitely interesting, but none of this is really new. I met with some VCs in the early 10s, and some of them talked about "free enterprise zones" in various areas in the region. Frankly, I'm a little surprised this isn't discussed more. Maybe because the need for "liberty" is less in the realm of bits & bytes for these developments, it is less publicized.
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