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Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

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61–70 of 105 posts

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#61

In one thread people fighting the ever decreasing amount of hw ownership of most devices in our lives and when we have one that is more open, the crowds come to attack that too. The theat model with tech has always been that if an attacker has physical access to the device and time then it's game over.

Because it's not open for modification by the general public? (emphasis general, not just technically minded people) Manufacturers need to pick a lane - either fully open, and then people who need it can harden their own stuff (and at least be aware of the tradeoff), or fully closed and secure. This in-between where cars are invasive privacy nightmares that spy on you at all driving hours, and are insecure nightmares…

Okay, what is fully open? Do you really think the head unit developer would hand you over a huge developer documentation about every bit in the software?

I'm freelancer and helped to develop some head units. I have a surprize for you: This documentation mostly doesn't exsists. Most of the time there are some chip datasheets and requirement documents, depending on the customer(car manufacturer) they are good or bad and then are some partly outdated wiki pages written down for some important special things. You learn all other stuff out of the code or from your colleagues.

Wait two years and the most knowledge is gone, except of the things that are used for the next head unit.

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not open for modification by the general public? (emphasis general, not just technically minded people) Manufacturers need to pick a lane - either fully open, and then people who need it can harden their own stuff (and at least be aware of the tradeoff), or fully closed and secure. This in-between where cars are invasive privacy nightmares that spy on you at all driving hours, and are insecure nightmares…

Okay, what is fully open? Do you really think the head unit developer would hand you over a huge developer documentation about every bit in the software? I'm freelancer and helped to develop some head units. I have a surprize for you: This documentation mostly doesn't exsists. Most of the time there are some chip datasheets and requirement documents, depending on the customer(car manufacturer) they are good or bad an…

Yeah, that's the status quo.

The biggest advantage actual developers have is access to the NDA'd vendor docs and the official SDKs. And, the vendor docs are bad and the official SDKs are a mess. Internal documentation? You'd be lucky if it's two steps above "nonexistent". It's usually just one step.

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not open for modification by the general public? (emphasis general, not just technically minded people) Manufacturers need to pick a lane - either fully open, and then people who need it can harden their own stuff (and at least be aware of the tradeoff), or fully closed and secure. This in-between where cars are invasive privacy nightmares that spy on you at all driving hours, and are insecure nightmares…

they can set it up to be secure by default and allow bootloader unlock like most android phones. if theres some form of owner authentication before you unlock evil maid attacks are impossible. you also need the ability to do a clean system reset and lock it again as many times as you want (no e-fuse, sorry samsung knox) so its safe to buy a used car even if the previous owner installed some spyware. all of that is te…

How could the owner authenticate? With the car key?

How could you do a clean system reset after someone had access to all installed software/data including the cryptographic keys? The information is gone, maybe the recovery partition is changed. How could you securely recover?

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#64

The framing of this article sucks. It is rather cool that you can hack your own car that easily. Framing it like "the evil valet" gives incentive and excuse to the manufacturer to lock down everything. While a real 3 letter agency evil valet will not car anyway. There is an endless list of things that it can do anyway, like put microphone in 100 places, change the electronic, get the key from the manufacturer, add ma…

full ack

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#66
post #45

Most (if not all) cars on the road are terrible in terms of the security of the infotainment system and other onboard electronics. What makes this even worse is the sensors they have onboard these days; the microphones, cameras, GNSS receivers, wifi and BT radios make them into mobile surveillance platforms. In March 2026, a bunch of controls were added to the Australian Government Information Security Manual[0] basi…

Isn't NC the absolute lowest in the sensitivity system?

It means “not classified”.

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#67
post #50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't NC the absolute lowest in the sensitivity system?

The point is that they want all government employees/politicians/contractors etc to understand the risks of on-vehicle electronics.

And they’ll still get very senior, and supposedly intelligent people saying “it’s just a car”.

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#69

IMHO this is a good sign(!?) that they didn't even think about locking down their systems against the owner.

Surely due to incompetence rather than hacker friendliness though?

Otherwise they would have had something like an unlockable bootloader where you need a special key to unlock it, or something difficult to access switch or something like that.

Re: Honda Civics and the Evil Valet

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not open for modification by the general public? (emphasis general, not just technically minded people) Manufacturers need to pick a lane - either fully open, and then people who need it can harden their own stuff (and at least be aware of the tradeoff), or fully closed and secure. This in-between where cars are invasive privacy nightmares that spy on you at all driving hours, and are insecure nightmares…

Okay, what is fully open? Do you really think the head unit developer would hand you over a huge developer documentation about every bit in the software? I'm freelancer and helped to develop some head units. I have a surprize for you: This documentation mostly doesn't exsists. Most of the time there are some chip datasheets and requirement documents, depending on the customer(car manufacturer) they are good or bad an…

I mean, yes. I would like to know that because it’s an unacceptable state of affairs from my perspective. If the production line relied on just always having someone working who remembered things instead of a proper solution to the Hit By a Bus problem I wouldn’t be buying that brand. It is my anecdata, uninformed opinion much of IT for cars is below average development. I started to wonder about this when I got a hold of two USB images to update a Chevy Camaro in 2010 (open driver’s side door between keys to indicate you were about to install the second USB key) and it feels weird to me this is still so poorly secured. Between the Hyundai/ Kia theft is sue a couple years back and my own experience with multiple long-standing bugs in our Hyundai’s infotainment system, I am suspicious of this ever being fixed.
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