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Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

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Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#61

Post by profsummergig »

somenameforme wrote: post #53
swiftcoder wrote: post #7

Fascinating to see that MENA is a net positive on migration. There's often a lot of rhetoric around MENA migration to Europe and North America, but you hear much less about migration to MENA countries.

Saudi Arabia has one of the highest immigration populations on Earth, somewhere around 42% contrasted against 15.8% in the US (which is an all-time high). They offer huge wages for pretty much everything, have dirt cheap living costs, and like many Mideast countries - there's no taxes for individuals.

These are expats, not immigrants. They aren't welcome to become citizens in Saudi Arabia.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#62

Post by carlosjobim »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17
swiftcoder wrote: post #7

Fascinating to see that MENA is a net positive on migration. There's often a lot of rhetoric around MENA migration to Europe and North America, but you hear much less about migration to MENA countries.

I think people underestimate how many people move back to their home country once they have a better chance (through e.g. education or money) and / or when the situation there improves (e.g. stability). It's why I don't understand why the anti-immigration parties don't do more internationally to help other countries.

Or move back to your home country once you've gained a beneficial citizenship and can have foreign government benefits paid out every month while you don't even live in that country anymore.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#63

Post by toasty228 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #7

Fascinating to see that MENA is a net positive on migration. There's often a lot of rhetoric around MENA migration to Europe and North America, but you hear much less about migration to MENA countries.

> Fascinating to see that MENA is a net positive on migration.

Really? it's a big economical hub now, the bulk of it migrate to a few countries, and in these countries just a few cities. It's a very different type of migration too.

https://www.iom.int/sites/g/files/tmzbdl2616/files/2018-07/M...

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#64

Post by sosomoxie »

somelamer567 wrote: post #50
3stacks wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you aren't suggesting Russia is uniquely to blame in this when the United States has displaced tens of millions of people in the last 20 years

> Whataboutery (also known as whataboutism) is a debating tactic used to evade accountability. Instead of directly addressing a criticism, the accused responds with a counter-accusation or brings up a different, usually unrelated issue (often starting with "What about...?") to distract from the original argument. I do see this a lot from pro-Russian trolls arguing in bad faith -- and using dirty rhetorical tricks to…

You posted a highly inflammatory claim without evidence. We have plenty of documentation of the US displacing people. Happy to read about Russia doing the same if you post it.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#65

Post by jimkleiber »

carlosjobim wrote: post #62
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate how many people move back to their home country once they have a better chance (through e.g. education or money) and / or when the situation there improves (e.g. stability). It's why I don't understand why the anti-immigration parties don't do more internationally to help other countries.

Or move back to your home country once you've gained a beneficial citizenship and can have foreign government benefits paid out every month while you don't even live in that country anymore.

Perhaps. I think it's more about the passport ranking so one can travel and also the salary bump. But even if more of the other government services, try living in a country where if you get into a serious car accident you have to pay cash at the ER before they treat you. Scrambling to find multiple thousands of dollars in cash at 3am sometimes. (This happened to my friend in Kenya)

Im not sure if I can blame people for wanting to have more financial or medical security.

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#66

Post by swiftcoder »

profsummergig wrote: post #61
somenameforme wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia has one of the highest immigration populations on Earth, somewhere around 42% contrasted against 15.8% in the US (which is an all-time high). They offer huge wages for pretty much everything, have dirt cheap living costs, and like many Mideast countries - there's no taxes for individuals.

These are expats, not immigrants. They aren't welcome to become citizens in Saudi Arabia.

I'm not entirely clear that the migration dataset actually distinguishes between those cases?

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#67

Post by nemo44x »

arrowsmith wrote: post #45
nomilk wrote: post #10

Only 1.7m people left North America in 2023 (4.4m arrivals). Would be interesting to compare to figures from 2025.

US had net negative migration in 2025 for the first time in decades: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/01/14/immigra...

[flagged]

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#68

Post by jimkleiber »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #57
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate how many people move back to their home country once they have a better chance (through e.g. education or money) and / or when the situation there improves (e.g. stability). It's why I don't understand why the anti-immigration parties don't do more internationally to help other countries.

The reason why pouring money into countries that source immigrants is a questionable solution is graft.

Yes, pouring money may not be a very efficient solution and graft can certainly happen. For me it's a combination of how much graft do we allow if we take the long perspective and see it shrinking over time (maybe we dont allow any, cold turkey)? And what are ways we can help change the environments that may not be directly tied to money? From my perspective, we often need (and graft) money the most when we don't trust ourselves and others to help us. So are there ways we can help build deeper relationships so money is not the only focus or way people think they can get help?

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#69

Post by jimkleiber »

expedition32 wrote: post #41
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate how many people move back to their home country once they have a better chance (through e.g. education or money) and / or when the situation there improves (e.g. stability). It's why I don't understand why the anti-immigration parties don't do more internationally to help other countries.

[flagged]

Why "correctly"? Who says that a country or a group of humans or even an individual human is beyond saving?

Re: Global population movements from 1990 to 2023

#70

Post by graphime »

jimkleiber wrote: post #69
expedition32 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why "correctly"? Who says that a country or a group of humans or even an individual human is beyond saving?

> Who says that a country or a group of humans or even an individual human is beyond saving?

The one doing the saving.

Surely the one needing help should not be the to decide. They will always say “I’m worth saving”.

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