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A crime doesn't make a child an adult

theatlantic.com

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Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who start committing crime earlier are more likely to simply be bad people rather than people who happened to be in bad circumstances. This is an unreasonable claim without the evidence actually being provided. It reads more as the conclusion you expect to see when you pull up a given study. Especially "simply be bad people" is not a particularly scientific phrase, and is a particularly moralistic one.

You've got it backward. The notion that criminals are simply ordinary people who find themselves in certain circumstances is the moralistic concept. It's something people want to be true, because it implies that we can reduce crime by fixing the circumstances that cause people to commit crime. But science shows that criminals are literally wired differently. For example, the brains of youth homicide offenders are dif…

> You've got it backward. The notion that criminals are simply ordinary people who find themselves in certain circumstances is the moralistic concept.

Two things can be true at once. My point was about the quote I pulled. Other perspectives on the topic are a separate matter.

> But science shows that criminals are literally wired differently. For example, the brains of youth homicide offenders are different than those of non-offenders.

Regardless, science doesn't show how these differences form; this phrasing smuggles a nature over nurture perspective as a fact: "more likely to simply be bad people rather than people who happened to be in bad circumstances" (as well as "science shows that criminals are literally wired differently" and "the point is that youth who commit serious crimes are disproportionately likely to be the ones who commit crimes due to factors intrinsic to the individual"). My point is that the statements I quoted are not strictly true, they are what the author expects to be true; I suppose there may be some reason other than morals for said expectation but, seeing as you didn't deny my framing, instead reversing it, I suspect it is accurate.

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#62
post #43

These young offenders are not blank slates whose future actions depend entirely upon how the state treats them. Rhetoric like the Author's has lead to disastrous soft on crime policies that have a death toll associated. Every year that a criminal is incarcerated is a year that they CANNOT kill an innocent citizen, rob a home or store, desecrate or vandalize the community, shoot up fentanyl in the streets, or do any n…

This argument fails if you consider that incarceration makes people more likely to commit crimes when they get out, not less

You can always keep them in jail forever, or execute them. Both are excellent options. Many human beings are complete and total net negatives, wholly incompatible with modern life, and their crimes justify their exclusion or termination. Iryna Zarutska's killer was convicted 14 separate times. He specifically should have been executed long ago, and the fact that he is still alive proves that America is not a Carceral state.

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#63

These young offenders are not blank slates whose future actions depend entirely upon how the state treats them. Rhetoric like the Author's has lead to disastrous soft on crime policies that have a death toll associated. Every year that a criminal is incarcerated is a year that they CANNOT kill an innocent citizen, rob a home or store, desecrate or vandalize the community, shoot up fentanyl in the streets, or do any n…

> Every year that a criminal is incarcerated is a year that they CANNOT kill an innocent citizen, rob a home or store, desecrate or vandalize the community, shoot up fentanyl in the streets, or do any number of things. Why stop at criminal, this also true for non-criminal; Let's just jail everyone, then we will all be safer.

CECOT is an excellent example of why common sense, and necessarily heavy handed policing is a requirement for a society to not be a prison itself. If you remove the prison, the prisoners just move into the country and make it a prison too. Except we all get to live next to them.
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