Live data from Hacker News

The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

from-a-to-remzi.blogspot.com

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#61
post #13

Buying used global editions from the international students is the move for undergrads at big schools. Hardcover binding and color print were not missed and definitely not worth 10-20x more. Even published lecturers would ask students to fetch a "course pack" compilation of sloppy photocopied excerpts for purchase by on-campus print operations. Somehow this wasn't piracy. It is no secret that publishers and bookselle…

Wiley actually tried to abuse copyright law to prohibit import and sale of international textbooks. They fought it all the way to the Supreme Court, and (thankfully) lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtsaeng_v._John_Wiley_%26_So....

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#63

The reason abusive textbook practices persists (i.e. instead of free/shared) is because students and parents direct their anger and complaints in the wrong direction. Specifically, the people making you waste money with bi-yearly re-releases, one-time-codes, or $150 textbooks, isn't actually the publishing houses. It is the gatekeepers at your very school: professors, department heads, and or the administration. Publ…

Higher ed instructor here and -- yeah, no. It's the publishers.

You're speaking as if we, as professors or administration love this system and strongly benefit from it. We don't. It's just inertia.

Put differently, re: your protest idea. Hey, go for it, lets see what happens.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#64
post #63

The reason abusive textbook practices persists (i.e. instead of free/shared) is because students and parents direct their anger and complaints in the wrong direction. Specifically, the people making you waste money with bi-yearly re-releases, one-time-codes, or $150 textbooks, isn't actually the publishing houses. It is the gatekeepers at your very school: professors, department heads, and or the administration. Publ…

Higher ed instructor here and -- yeah, no. It's the publishers. You're speaking as if we, as professors or administration love this system and strongly benefit from it. We don't. It's just inertia. Put differently, re: your protest idea. Hey, go for it, lets see what happens.

Why not choose different books? For most subjects, why not old books or wikibooks?

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#65

I've heard good things about openstax.

I used several of their books in school. Each of them was top notch. Hell, their math books are better than the paid books I used.

I'm glad to hear that, I just ordered their astronomy book the other day! The online/PDF material looked good but I hate diving into something unless it's on paper.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#66
post #63

The reason abusive textbook practices persists (i.e. instead of free/shared) is because students and parents direct their anger and complaints in the wrong direction. Specifically, the people making you waste money with bi-yearly re-releases, one-time-codes, or $150 textbooks, isn't actually the publishing houses. It is the gatekeepers at your very school: professors, department heads, and or the administration. Publ…

Higher ed instructor here and -- yeah, no. It's the publishers. You're speaking as if we, as professors or administration love this system and strongly benefit from it. We don't. It's just inertia. Put differently, re: your protest idea. Hey, go for it, lets see what happens.

Have you tried teaching without any textbook at all? Because that's how it worked during my CS education in Germany. All course content was written up in the lecture notes provided on the course homepage, variously a neatly-formatted LaTeX document or a scan of the instructor's literal handwritten notes. Sometimes there were also optional recommendations for further reading, but I recall one memorable case where a student asked the prof to recommend a textbook, who wasn't able to give an answer on the spot because his course wasn't designed around any particular book.

If you think that writing down everything you want to teach sounds like a lot of work, well, that's how you benefit from relying on a textbook to supply the content for you instead.

EDIT: Perhaps I should've read TFA first, considering that it describes a textbook grown out of the author's lecture notes for a course taught without textbook.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#67

Copyright stifles creative output. I believe that if we got rid of copyright (not just for textbooks), the quality and quantity of published work will increase.

> the quality and quantity of published work will increase.

I know the argument from the late 1700s that having copyright wouldn't necessarily lead to higher quality works of literature, music, etc.

But I've never heard the argument that getting rid of copyright would actually lead to higher quality published works. What's the evidence or even reasoning for that claim here in 2026?

Edit: added here in 2026 because, on reflection, I'm not asking about historical arguments; though they may be interesting, I'm curious about what's relevant in the time of social media and LLMs.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#68
The university textbook market is pathological and unfair. At every turn the publishers , and the universities happily go along with it.

It taught me the value of a healthy secondhand market. For common classes like calculus and physics, the new price was about $80 or $100, but I could buy a used book directly from a student for $60, and sell the same copy directly to another student for $60 after the semester was over. But by the time I was taking senior‐level engineering courses, there were so few students taking them that used textbooks were hard to find.

To fight used sales, publishers would release new editions fairly often. Maybe there were justifiable reasons for a new edition, like fixing typos perhaps, but it was obvious to anyone who stuck with an older edition that the biggest changes between editions were the problem sets, in an obvious attempt from the publishers to force students onto the latest edition. Certainly it beggars belief that subjects like calculus and differential equations would see enough change in the field to justify the new editions as rapidly as they came out.

I often used international editions, which could be bought for $15 or so (when available). They were made with cheap paper and cheap bindings, but the content was identical. As usual, though, the publishers often changed the problem sets between countries. Since the rest of the book was identical, students with old editions or international editions could use the book normally just fine, only having to copying the assigned homework problems from a generous student with a current edition.

At my school, the University of New Mexico, couple of textbooks from mainstream publishers were published as “special UNM editions”; I would love to compare one of these to a mainstream edition to see if anything meaningful changed. I think it’s safe to assume that it was just another excuse to reduce the size of the used market and to change the problem sets around.

There were some cases where the professors wrote their own textbooks. It made sense a time or two in the more specialist subjects, but the moral hazard is obvious. The worst was when I took a Greek mythology class in the humanities department: the lecturer wrote the book, which was a consumable workbook, and wouldn’t accept homework on a separate paper, only written on a page from the book.

When I was in school, publishers were only just introducing the idea of supplemental online course materials, which of course expire at the end of the semester and can’t be resold. I shudder to think what the university textbook market is like now, when the used market can be so completely eliminated.

The publishers’ behavior is obscene, but what I find really reprehensible is that the university and the teachers went along with it, when they could structure their courses otherwise.

One of the few good experiences I had with assigned reading was a microprocessors class where the professor, who had a fair amount of industry experience, assigned only public datasheets and manuals. It makes such a difference when material is produced by a functional market, where the authors’ financial incentive is to provide thorough, functional documentation without grift. The contrast with university textbooks was so apparent.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#69
post #66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher ed instructor here and -- yeah, no. It's the publishers. You're speaking as if we, as professors or administration love this system and strongly benefit from it. We don't. It's just inertia. Put differently, re: your protest idea. Hey, go for it, lets see what happens.

Have you tried teaching without any textbook at all? Because that's how it worked during my CS education in Germany. All course content was written up in the lecture notes provided on the course homepage, variously a neatly-formatted LaTeX document or a scan of the instructor's literal handwritten notes. Sometimes there were also optional recommendations for further reading, but I recall one memorable case where a st…

At Caltech, a textbook was often specified by the Prof, but was rarely referenced or used.

> All course content was written up in the lecture notes provided on the course homepage, variously a neatly-formatted LaTeX document or a scan of the instructor's literal handwritten notes.

I discovered (and others have confirmed) that handouts of lecture notes are not very effective. What is effective is the prof writes them on the chalkboard and the student copies them, by hand, into a notebook.

Labor saving machinery doesn't work when trying to learn a subject.

Re: The Case for Free Online Books (2014)

#70
post #64
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher ed instructor here and -- yeah, no. It's the publishers. You're speaking as if we, as professors or administration love this system and strongly benefit from it. We don't. It's just inertia. Put differently, re: your protest idea. Hey, go for it, lets see what happens.

Why not choose different books? For most subjects, why not old books or wikibooks?

Because Calculus, Newtonian Mechanics, etc., has changed dramatically since 50 years ago.

LOL.

Post reply on HN