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It used to be hard

praf.me

61–70 of 102 posts

Re: It used to be hard

#61

I think emotions are an underrated aspect to the "AI changes how we work" thing. Everyone I know extensively uses AI in most parts of their work. Basically everyone has multiplied their output by a lot. But I don't know many people who say they enjoy their work more because of AI. I definitely resonate with the pain of watching something that required so many little bits of knowledge you earned over years melt into p…

“But I can't help but have some nostalgia for how things were pre-AI. Work felt more honest, the skills I spent years building felt more valuable, and I was more satisfied at work.”

I am 25 but as someone who came into this field very passionate and competent, this was my initial reaction and it sat uncomfortably with me for many months. I still have nostalgia (mainly from a younger age). On work feeling more honest, I think this is a result of an institutional attack on software engineering rather than a new reality of these tools. Like what happens to many other labor forces in history as you mention with artisan cobblers. In some ways it is a consequence of technology but it definitely also weaponized to hurt labor and consolidate power.

In the case of AI-assisted coding, this manifests in a culture of distrust and disrespect toward engineers, both from the bottom-up and top-down. Managers will devalue their engineers by using AI to bypass them. Peers and reports will use AI to exaggerate progress in lockstep with management. No is no longer an easy vocabulary choice when dealing with power because previously technical prowess was definitive, now it can be made “advisory”. I think this is very wrong and stupid but the market can be irrational longer than you can be solvent or something like that.

I still think it is though, that technical knowledge is still supreme. Maybe this is a cope but I find AI tooling very empowering (minus the walled garden nature of it which can be mitigated through local usage but this is problematic in its own regard). Management, pundits, and tech CEOs can frame it however they want but I feel more technically capable than at any point of my technology journey. Not at work, not in academia, but objectively from me knowing myself. We can do more in less time if we know what to do.

Re: It used to be hard

#62
post #53

> Turning this essay into a song in the style of 2000's Hip Hop? It used to be hard Have you listened to the song he links? It's very convincing. If you were just casually listening to it in the grocery store, you wouldn't notice it was made by AI.

Very convincing indeed! I really want to know what AI made that, as I’m looking forward to creating personal/customized music in a similar way.

almost certainly suno

Re: It used to be hard

#63

What type of applications are y'all seeing from LLMs? Anecdotally the only thing that has changed for me is the ability to output more code. That's not software. My coworker is a 10x vibe-coder and his flagship application is held together with brittle shell scripts, a sloppy codebase, bad abstractions, piles of markdown files and an ouroboros of generated tests. This is not software. This is just held together with…

the 0x engineer became a 10x vibe-coder responsible for our CICD and vibe-coded testing that was previously manual

He's introduced several 100,000s LoC changes and additions in 10-15 codebases. There are some repos that only he works in ( so no PRs, just merge to master and be done ). He also has self-approved and merged changes without review (he's an admin)

Anyway, now he put in his notice and no one on his team knows how any of this works. We can't get code changes without CICD passing. CICD breaks all the time. The original contractor who made the CICD before him wants nothing to do with it now. We can't generate signed OTA packages.

He went from doing 'too much to finish anything' to 'made so many changes that he had to bypass PRs'.

Now he's leaving.

Engineers have been pointing out this bottleneck for the past year or so. The engineering managers aren't pushing it and the business owners either don't understand or don't care

Re: It used to be hard

#64
post #52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not duct tape, the issue is having someone you can rely on to know what to tape.

People in the know are not suggesting engineers are no longer needed, but that they need to adapt.

Please explain this "adapting". The LLM sellers' holygrail is * you just need to crank our model bro *. With this mindset, there is no adaptation needed, save a couple of weeks of getting up to speed with nuances of using the models, the / commands and integration of their APIs into your workflow.

Re: It used to be hard

#65

I think emotions are an underrated aspect to the "AI changes how we work" thing. Everyone I know extensively uses AI in most parts of their work. Basically everyone has multiplied their output by a lot. But I don't know many people who say they enjoy their work more because of AI. I definitely resonate with the pain of watching something that required so many little bits of knowledge you earned over years melt into p…

“But I can't help but have some nostalgia for how things were pre-AI. Work felt more honest, the skills I spent years building felt more valuable, and I was more satisfied at work.” I am 25 but as someone who came into this field very passionate and competent, this was my initial reaction and it sat uncomfortably with me for many months. I still have nostalgia (mainly from a younger age). On work feeling more honest,…

I think your take is very balanced and true. I've also never felt as technologically capable as I do now.

I guess the most annoying part to me is the expectation of producing a multiple of the output in the same time, when what I really enjoy is the process of slowly making things.

> I still think it is though, that technical knowledge is still supreme.

Ultimately, the ability to get results is what matters most. I've seen quite a few AI maximalists who have Claude mass-produce a bunch of things that nobody needs and then have something running on autopilot that doesn't need to be running in the first place.

Re: It used to be hard

#66

I think emotions are an underrated aspect to the "AI changes how we work" thing. Everyone I know extensively uses AI in most parts of their work. Basically everyone has multiplied their output by a lot. But I don't know many people who say they enjoy their work more because of AI. I definitely resonate with the pain of watching something that required so many little bits of knowledge you earned over years melt into p…

The problem with this thinking is that every shoe cost effort to make. Software takes that much effort to make once, and then it can be duplicated for free whether it's awesome or crap. It isn't the same economics.

That's true. Although how the product is sold doesn't necessarily affect how we enjoy working on it imo.

You can love writing code and working on tricky projects the same way you can love hand-making boots.

You can love managing an agent swarm the same way you can love managing a shoe factory.

I was talking about enjoyment of the work, not the economics of it.

Re: It used to be hard

#67
post #21

If you're not finding it hard to write software any more, write more ambitious software . I'm taking on massively more ambitious projects than I was just a year ago, and it's taking every inch of my skill and experience to do that. Building software feels harder now, and I'm really enjoying it.

There's a neat / weird ladder that I keep seeing friends go through as they work through this.

- Volume. Kill the backlog! 8 agents in terminals, frantically!

- Ambition. Do the things you always want to do! You have the power!

- Clarity. Oh god I have to figure out what to do next.

That last one is honestly super-hard, but it's also the most valuable. Like, do you want to wake up every day and find new work, because you understand the machine better than everybody else? I know a bunch of people that love that stuff, but also a bunch that don't. I totally get that the transition is hard.

https://tern.sh/blog/volume-ambition-clarity/

Re: It used to be hard

#68

What type of applications are y'all seeing from LLMs? Anecdotally the only thing that has changed for me is the ability to output more code. That's not software. My coworker is a 10x vibe-coder and his flagship application is held together with brittle shell scripts, a sloppy codebase, bad abstractions, piles of markdown files and an ouroboros of generated tests. This is not software. This is just held together with…

> his flagship application is held together with brittle shell scripts, a sloppy codebase, bad abstractions, piles of markdown files and an ouroboros of generated tests

you just described lots of codebases at highly values companies. Plenty of places, maybe even the majority, do not care about code quality if the code results in a functional application.

Re: It used to be hard

#69
post #12

> This might be why despite AI automating so much work, the 996 grind culture is more alive than ever. There's an interesting paradox which occurs when a particular field finds its work becoming easier. Suddenly, the world needs more of everyone else's job and less of your job. You have to work harder now that there's less work to do, because there's more competition.

Or, the world needs more of your field because it's now cheaper.

I've often heard of house painting as an example of this. It used to take a crew of 8 with buckets, paintbrushes, and ladders to repaint a house. Then paint rollers came along and it got easier. Then sprayers came along and it got even easier. Costs fell, so now people want their houses painted far more often. Landlords now nearly always fully repaint apartments between tenants. As cost fell, painting demand rose.

Re: It used to be hard

#70
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! And more projects. And you have the freedom to try and fail. Was thinking of a comparison, cars are faster than walking. Imagine saying, no I prefer only walking. It is healthier than sitting in a car and your legs will atrophy. That is very much true (and we can see the consequences in car dominated societies). Nevertheless, for many industries cars are very important. You don’t say, I would rather carry all th…

You only have as much freedom as you can buy from a handful of huge corporations.

Or download for free from half a dozen Chinese AI labs (at least for the moment.)

... or Google Gemma or Mistral.

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