Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day • Hacker News Board

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#61

Post by Tade0 » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:11 PM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #47

This seems highly doubtful. If solar saves money, why does Germany (with a lot of solar) have higher rather than lower energy prices?

Partly because they still use coal, which is heavily taxed under the emissions trading scheme and partly because of the way electricity auctions work in most of Europe, namely every participant sells at the price offered by the highest bidder.

Spain opted out of this system and is now enjoying cheap wholesale electricity, which is fueling an industrial revival.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#62

Post by ZeroGravitas » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:11 PM UTC

lopis wrote: post #37

runtime_terror wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries, having a mixed grid of renewables, and new advances in nuclear solves this

Batteries help, but they still cost way more than direct solar and wind. We still need way more solar and wind to use directly.

Costing less than the most expensive thing they replace is the interesting threshold.

That's evening peaker gas plants in most places. After batteries push gas out of that market they go on to morning peaks and so on.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#63

Post by testing22321 » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

toasty228 wrote: post #4

testing22321 wrote: post #3

My roof mount system is saving me $1000 a year in electricity, plus more in natural gas that I I disconnected, and it was $0 of my own money thanks to a grant and interest free loan. Electricity is pre approved to increase a minimum of 5% a year (it just went up 16% this year for people out of town), so the savings will only increase. I’ll pocket something like $35k in 25 years for $0. Best investment ever. I’m in ca…

> it was $0 of my own money thanks to a grant and interest free loan. Pretty sure it's all tax funded. Where I am as soon as the government introduced subsidies every single installer jacked their price 2-5x, now they all start right at the threshold at which the subsidies kicks in, amazing... it costs twice as much to the community but "0" to the individual

> Pretty sure it's all tax funded

Yes. I’m very happy my taxes are spent on things that improve the lives of everyday people rather than endless wars.

Either spend it on productive things, or have zero taxes.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#64

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:13 PM UTC

random3 wrote: post #10

There's virtually an infinite number ways to assess something like this, and a single figure out of context is meaningless. What's the deprecation schedule? Which financial "context" is it calculated within? A household may benefit from governmental support and profitable, while the aggregate financial situation may or may not be so. What timeline is it calculated on? A 5-10 year window may be unprofitable, while a l…

[deleted]

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#65

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:14 PM UTC

adamrezich wrote: post #28

chiffre01 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not nothing. Plus the fact that it's money not not getting shipped out of Europe to hostile regions is a net win.

Where are the panels sourced from?

China. With that said, they have so much solar PV capacity that they’re barely breaking even, even when exporting tens of GW of PV panels a month. I argue it’s a net positive the solar PV printers in China are kept in business to maintain their annual output, the world needs as much solar PV as it can produce as fast as possible.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#66

Post by alexey-salmin » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:14 PM UTC

The title is misleading. $135 is not "money saved", it's "money not spent on fossil fuels" (even for that I couldn't find how it was calculated by solarpowereurope, but the number seems plausible).

To the discussion of whether $50B/y is a big figure or not. EU has around 400GW of PV installed. Cost to install per 1kW ranged between $600 and up to $4000 because a big chunk of that capacity was built when prices were much higher. If we consider average price at $1000 this means $400B on capex alone + yearly operational expenses. It can still be profitable (assuming current PV prices can be sustained + installed capacity doesn't grow faster than storage) but it's going to be many years until the investment is recouped and it starts to actually "save money for Europeans".

In any case, of course it's still nice to depend less on imported oil, even if not for money savings.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#67

Post by vaylian » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:14 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #24

photonair wrote: post #11

With oil prices and wars, the adoption for renewables and not just solar should accelerate to wean the world off oil.

I've half jokingly said it before, but I think by overall impact Trump and Putin's sheer chaos is doing an order of magnitude more to transition the EU to green energy than anything else that was done deliberately to fight climate change lmao. People don't give a fuck until gasoline is 2€ per liter.

Covid helped a lot with digitalisation and working from home.

But these things don't get momentum in a vacuum. People need to advocate for them beforehand, so that when the time is right, the decision makers will know who to turn to.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#68

Post by outside2344 » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:15 PM UTC

My solar panels amaze me every day. It is just crazy that a flat panel, that doesn't have any moving parts, and requires a once a year cleaning (at most), just eliminated my power bill completely.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#69

Post by complianceowll » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:16 PM UTC

tapoxi wrote: post #23

I installed a solar system at my home in Massachusetts for 17k last year (after tax credits), 7.82 kw. So far it's covered about 70% of my usage and 5.7 Mwh. I don't have a full year of data yet so I expect that number to grow as it includes the summer months. I drive an EV and this includes the car.

Uh, that's absolutely badass...

As an adult, one of the things that fascinate me is self-sufficiency: the idea that you can buy a solar power system, install it, and use your own power -- without getting a bill in the mail every month, many times feeling like a victim of modern day suburban subjugation.

I'm still a good little obedient peasant, but I hope one day I can rely more on well water/rain catchment system, solar power, and propane.

Getting 70% of your electrical usage from your own solar power system has to be a good feeling.

Re: Solar Energy Saves Europeans $135M a Day

#70

Post by ramesh31 » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 4:16 PM UTC

forcedtolinux wrote: post #59

ramesh31 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I installed a solar system at my home in Massachusetts for 17k last year (after tax credits), 7.82 kw. This is the problem still in the US. Even at ~$0.23/kwh delivered in the northeast, you're looking at an ROI of nearly five years. Fine if you can float that kind of cash to feel better about yourself, but the economics just aren't there for most people, especially in cheaper parts of the country where rates are ~$…

getting your money back in 5 years is pretty good, or am I missing something? That's 15% yearly

That 5 years assumes you can provide 100% of your electricity usage via solar, which is a complete fantasy outside the south/southwest US, and would realistically require a >10kw system. But again, it's also the out of pocket money we're talking about. Very few normal people can float that, and opportunity cost is real.