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American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

61–70 of 360 posts

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#61
post #52

> Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

The French Revolution is no longer possible. The surveillance state plus wealth mobility means the wealthy will be in New Zealand before anyone erects a guillotine, and the people that would foment a revolution are heavily surveilled and infiltrated.

Are you sure about that? Tech cuts both ways & asymmetric drone warfare has become cheaper than ever … how hard it is it to sink some yachts or down some jets?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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When your part in wealth creation is having your wealth acquired by somebody else. Wealth creation only works when the the money available to buy wealth creating instruments is significantly less than the value of those instruments. How would markets behave if investment accounts had more cash in them than there were investment vehicles? I suspect it would be like what we see today in private equity with illiquid fun…

> When your part in wealth creation is having your wealth acquired by somebody else.

That's called "theft". In a free market, transactions are mutually agreed upon. Equal wealth for equal wealth.

> Wealth creation only works when the the money available to buy wealth creating instruments is significantly less than the value of those instruments.

Your statement presumes that "value" is some construct independent of the market. The only "value" in commerce is what someone is willing to pay for it. There is no other useful definition of value.

As for how wealth is created, I buy a canvas and some paint for $50, and paint a masterpiece that Ritchie Rich buys from me for $10,000. I created that wealth. Taylor Swift figured out how to turn her song skillz into a billion dollars. She created that wealth. Musk figured out how to turn hunks of metal into rockets that are quite profitable. He created that wealth. And so on.

> How would markets behave if investment accounts had more cash in them than there were investment vehicles?

Now that is a complex topic. But I'll make a simple take on it. When there is more cash than things to buy, then the value of the cash diminishes. We call that "inflation". Wealth creation does not cause inflation.

As for private equity, nobody is making you invest in it.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#63
post #44

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

You just named symptoms not cause. 1. People vote for old idiots . 2. Local politics is all about milking any potential work with permits. Sky rocket housing due to that . 3. American lost engineering culture everywhere except software . Now software is dead as industry we used to know

> People vote for old idiots .

i think this is also a syndrome not a cause

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#66

I thought the Economist used to have much higher quality articles. Where is the historical analysis? Is it more apocalyptic now than during the cold war when kids hid under their desks? Did America really win the space race because of a presidential speech or was it the apocalyptic threat that if we lose, we will all live under communist rule? Would American manufacturing have ever caught up to Germany if it weren't…

> Where is the historical analysis? Is it more apocalyptic now than during the cold war when kids hid under their desks?

the Cold War apocalypse was solely military in nature which had few implications economically, whether you get nuked or not doesn't change an investors strategy, you just assume the world doesn't end and carry on. The cold war calculus was if anything maybe the most rationally (albeit scary) period of human history, but exceptionally stable.

There is a difference between billionaires being afraid of the communists, which was of course self-serving, hysteric and at times bigoted, but the communists were at least real and had killed some few ten million people. That's a very different form of apocalyptic thinking than billionaires giving lectures on the actual Anti-Christ in the Vatican.

Economic manias happen in periods of social transformation and hot war, not cold ones. And on that front we do look a lot more like we are in the 1920s, or some bizarre 19th century evangelical revivalism period rather than the 1960s.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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What's dense about it?

It's both an illogical question and comes from a place of ignorance about a topic which one would expect folks nowadays to have some basic competence in.

First, the illogical part: the statement was about "inequality" to which you asked about wealth generation. These are two separate issues, and inequality is not, logically, necessarily tied to wealth generation. So "How does creating wealth hurt others?" is, at best, a non sequitur.

The ignorance part: there is a lot of empirical research over many decades showing the negative impact of wealth inequality on societies. With Google and AI there's really no good reason to ask such ignorant questions when in a moment you could educate yourself, and then ask an informed and thoughtful question instead.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How does creating wealth hurt others? Inflation. If i print $1 trillion dollars, i buy up all the resources you need to live and dangle them in front of you and control every aspect of your life.

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Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#69

> Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

The French Revolution was an orgy in mass murder that led to the slaughter of millions in the Napoleon wars. It really need to be romantizied much less!

It was a coalition of monarchies, so terrified of the prospect of even a single popular republic rejecting the divine right to rule, that began the bloodshed and invaded France.

Blaming the Revolution for the Coalition wars is just bad history.

In case you didn't notice, the Revolution won. All contemporary republics fundamentally inherit from the French Revolution - you're surprised that the systems of govt honour and romanticize it's progenitors?

Aside, if bloodshed prevention is your only barometer for history, supporting the Coalition view of events is even sillier, because the Bourbon Restoration directly led to the Revolutions of 1830 and 1848, which was yet more bloodshed. Almost as if unjust systems are fundamentally untenable...

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#70
post #60

Fascism needs existential threats. Nobody in their sane mind will accept their hateful ideology if they were not desperate, and in panic. > A millenarian economy is necessarily a paranoid one. The economy does not need to be paranoid, it becomes paranoid with inequality increases the stakes on everything, when you can be obscenely rich or depressingly poor and there is no in between. That makes reasonable people para…

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