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MAI-Thinking-1

microsoft.ai

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#61

The benchmarks are a bit of a disaster? It's at about DeepSeek V3.2 level, but with about 50% more parameters. Loses handily to the also smaller GLM-5.1, and even worse to the similarly sized Kimi K2.6.

They claim to not be training to the benchmarks at all. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up in actual use.

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they took the actual repos’ licenses info account. I don’t understand why they should ask for permission when the license would already allow for it.

Which licenses allow usage for training? MIT, BSD, etc likely do. But I would expect it gets weird for all the various copyleft licences.

Why would it get weird for those?

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is, but I can imagine that they want to start out a bit smaller to see how well things scale, and/or did not yet have the time to work on optimizing for the large context windows.

I struggle to get quality results from the frontier models at contexts > 256k anyway.

Yup, same experience, it’s because the attention basically has exponential complexity. So at large context windows, they need to compress the attention (eg group multiple tokens together), when then leads to loss in accuracy.

It’s almost always better to keep your context windows small.

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#64
post #5

> Second, clean data. MAI-Thinking-1 was trained on clean and appropriately licensed data, with AI-generated content excluded from pre-training. This matters for quality, provenance, and control. If we cannot account for what shaped a model, we cannot fully understand its behavior or credibly improve it. Shots fired? It would be interesting to see how far "clean data" can go on the scaling laws.

Interesting. Wasn't their previous attempt (Phi) trained mostly on synthetic data?

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which licenses allow usage for training? MIT, BSD, etc likely do. But I would expect it gets weird for all the various copyleft licences.

Why would it get weird for those?

Theoretically it mandates that derivative works use same license but it's unclear if that applies to LLM outputs.

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#66
post #5

> Second, clean data. MAI-Thinking-1 was trained on clean and appropriately licensed data, with AI-generated content excluded from pre-training. This matters for quality, provenance, and control. If we cannot account for what shaped a model, we cannot fully understand its behavior or credibly improve it. Shots fired? It would be interesting to see how far "clean data" can go on the scaling laws.

all the labs "clean" their pretraining data, and you can have your pretraining data to be minimally ai generated but also spam synthetic post-training data

Re: MAI-Thinking-1

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to see what "appropriately licensed data" means. Cannot imagine they didn't copy all open repo's on GitHub, and can't imagine they asked for permission, or are reproducing license texts from these repo's now. It sounds hand wavy. P.S. A fairly basic website otherwise, but it unfortunately seems to be hacking scroll for no good reason.

I assume they took the actual repos’ licenses info account. I don’t understand why they should ask for permission when the license would already allow for it.

Almost all licenses have requirements to redistribute copies of the work, or derivatives thereof. Even permissive licenses do. It's very little to ask when open source dev's provided thousands of hours of free work.

For example, the Apache 2.0 license requires in just 4.c:

  You must retain, in the Source form of any Derivative Works that You distribute, all copyright, patent, trademark, and attribution notices from the Source form of the Work, excluding those notices that do not pertain to any part of the Derivative Works;
Just because they're tokenized and transformed into a probabilistic mapping, doesn't suddenly mean that they weren't copied.

I find it morally unethical that they (likely) just ingest IP of all open source repo's without asking, but also importantly without any attribution.

Let me also note that I'm not against LLM's in general. But I do think training on open source must be opt-in, and I look forward to a world with actually ethical, and traceable (i.e. on what they were trained on, like a bill of materials (BOM)), models.

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