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Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

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Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#61

Post by avidiax »

everdrive wrote: post #35
hackeraccount wrote: post #29

Isn't "data centers are using all the electricity" the same as "we're not pricing electricity correctly"? Instead of a ban just make sure they pay what's needed to keep capacity where it needs to be.

On this note, I'm actually confused about why datacenters raise electric costs. Why doesn't the data center bear an extra cost for the added infrastructure? If I build a house on undeveloped land and the electric company needs to run lines, do I also (in a much smaller way than a data center) increase the costs for all other customers? Is everything always just spread evenly?

Yes. That is a central problem with power distribution in California.

The cities are paying exorbitant prices for electricity to pay for safer infrastructure for rural customers (undergrounding).

Some cities have divested from PG&E and enjoy much lower electricity prices as a result.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#62

Post by catigula »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #57
catigula wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be illegal to lay workers off for AI like it is in China, where sensible policy exists.

You just lay them off for another reason I mean if AI is really powerful the reason is "profitability as our competitor steals our contracts at a fraction of the price". Your competitor just doesn't hire in the first place of course.

[flagged]

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#63

Post by 3sk_ask8 »

vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

Yes, it is vital to create more slop and Anime figures. We need to win that race at all costs.

So urgent that Andreesen has a Super PAC to push the dangerous China narrative.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#64

Post by goatlover »

catigula wrote: post #53
vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

There's no such thing as 'control over AI'; that goes double for someone who is a complete nobody plebian with a little baby stock portfolio. You know, basically everyone except for a select few.

The industry can be regulated and taxed like anything else.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#65

Post by lifestyleguru »

Backblaze increased the price per TB (we should be getting emails "ten times the storage for the same price"). Reliable VPS for 5EUR/month are basically gone. Affordability of assembling own PC is back to maybe late 1990s.

Tear it all down.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#66

Post by headcanon »

atomic128 wrote: post #48

Poison Fountain on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoisonFountain/

Do you feel poison fountain is actually effective? To me it seems like free chaos engineering for ingestion platforms. Wouldn't it paradoxically harden data ingestion?

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#67

Post by Abh1Works »

conartist6 wrote: post #52
vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

You could say the same of human intelligence and competence and social trust. I think it's a mistake to stop producing those things.

Fair point, but you dont produce intelligence, competence and social trust. Essentially a society earns it.

Is the reason that competence and social trust are declining because of AI? Maybe, but not only that.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#69

Post by verdverm »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #24
verdverm wrote: post #6

The politics of anti-* is tiring. Where are the people and politicians with optimism and a vision? The issues with data centers are manageable. It's quite hard to bring X back to America if Americans oppose the buildings we need (factories, power gen, data centers). I wonder how much of this is the powerful and adversarial poisoning the discourse so America continues to stumble and fall from hegemony?

We've heard a lot of optimism about Facebook, Google, etc. and now see all those companies having too much power over us and sucking worse eeach year. So we've evolved our thinking. Sorry it's tiring.

I'm fully on board with the Big Tech / Big Ai / oligarchs having far too much power. I am involved with my local indivisible towards creating a better future. We are currently focused on getting voter turnout so we can get people elected to slow the damage the current admin is doing. It's hard to have any nuanced discussions right now.

Interestingly, the group is mixed on the Ai topic. Some are anti, some are very excited. We have had amazing discussions without it becoming heated, IRL, because people communicate differently in the flesh.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#70

Post by jeltz »

pantsforbirds wrote: post #36
raincole wrote: post #22

At the end it's a facility that costs the locals and benefits non-locals. Even if AI is the truly greatest productivity booster, the benefits are still distributed over all its customers, and the environmental impacts are mostly local. It's like if someone is building a landfill in your hometown to bury the whole country's waste. Or it's like a factory that creates zero job.

Except datacenters are actually very low environmental impact. As long as they provide their own power, they have MUCH lower impact than most farms would.

Let them eat tokens.
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