Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism • Hacker News Board

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#61

Post by britzkopf » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:32 PM UTC

knollimar wrote: post #50

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about this for at least 15 seconds, and this remains mysterious to me. Could you explain, please?

Sorry for being salty, a bit hyperbole perhaps in the 2:1 numbers. I draft and write some code for construction companies and personally saw layoffs and not taking work due to increased material costs. The structural companies we worked with similarly did a few layoffs. The average pay of these jobs was 60k+. Manufacturing of steel is very competitive and I haven't seen the American steel drop in price. I can't perso…

What is the alternative to buildings? Outdoor schools, factories and dental offices?

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#62

Post by xp84 » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:34 PM UTC

rebolek wrote: post #28

merelydev wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "democratic elections" even mean in this new world where traditional politicians don't understand these dynamics?

Then vote for politicians who do.

Few of those are ever running. Mostly we have just two brands of smooth-brains whose only policy aim is “preventing that other group of assholes from gaining any power, because they and their supporters are pure evil!”

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#63

Post by amelius » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:35 PM UTC

Chinjut wrote: post #60

amelius wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technologists can control it, the moment they can remove that stupid disclaimer saying that AI can make mistakes.

What's stupid about the disclaimer?

It basically says "we have no control over it", and "we don't know how it works".

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#64

Post by b473a » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:35 PM UTC

mrbluecoat wrote: post #32

AI is eating the world and it's only a matter of time until Catholicism joins the wave: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofiachierchio/2026/05/29/this-...

I am a Catholic who is heavily involved in adult faith education, and and I can very safely say everyone in the Church thinks this is a terrible idea except for the tech people that make these models. These things are all independent projects.

Because of the nuance involved in explaining theological concepts there's a long, long history of reviewing and approving books that explain doctrine. LLM outputs can be reviewed by a competent authority and approved for publication but releasing an AI to explain the theology to the general public in any sort of official way is impossible.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#65

Post by knollimar » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

britzkopf wrote: post #61

knollimar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for being salty, a bit hyperbole perhaps in the 2:1 numbers. I draft and write some code for construction companies and personally saw layoffs and not taking work due to increased material costs. The structural companies we worked with similarly did a few layoffs. The average pay of these jobs was 60k+. Manufacturing of steel is very competitive and I haven't seen the American steel drop in price. I can't perso…

What is the alternative to buildings? Outdoor schools, factories and dental offices?

That sounds like some reductionist hackernews question that tries to hint at some clever insight but I'll assume no snark and answer with as much insight as I can.

You just make less of them. Some buildings are discretionary, like your big apartment buildings you probably want (these were the two that got cancelled).

Person funding can make x profit over building per year. Person loaning loans x for y sum. Building costing more than interest amortized profit means it doesn't get built.

And I just had a doctor's office fitout cancelled mid project (drafted it personally :) ). so apparently those are, too.

Public projects like schools rarely get cancelled. Factories I personally don't draft so I really can't tell you.

Healthcare absolutely has a ton of discretion for their buildouts.

What's the alternative to steel? You just make less if it's not profitable to make.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#66

Post by jfengel » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:43 PM UTC

dgellow wrote: post #42

knollimar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democratically elected governments can't reorder a cookie right now. We even had one out tariffs on steel, thinkinf this would be good for jobs here. If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs

> If there was 0.1 seconds of thought they'd realize any manufacturing job you make from a steel tariff cuts 2 more well paid trade jobs They knew that was the case. They don't care. The maga crowd isn't acting in good faith. Nobody other than the cult members and people who aren't paying attention thought that would actually bring manufacturing back to the US. The point of the tariffs is to devalue USD (something Tr…

I do think they believed and believe it, though the reasoning is less economic than that. Manufacturing "belongs" in the US due to our inherent superiority, and has gone elsewhere only because of ill-conceived notions of niceness.

By increasing tariffs they will have to pay their proper obeisance for their inferiority, and be inspired to actually work hard like us Americans.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#67

Post by heroicmailman » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:49 PM UTC

mijailt wrote: post #8

Somewhat related: Peter Thiel and the Antichrist [1] > Thiel: [...] There’s a risk of nuclear war, there’s a risk of environmental disaster. Maybe something specific, like climate change, although there are lots of other ones we’ve come up with. There’s a risk of bioweapons. You have all the different sci-fi scenarios. Obviously, there are certain types of risks with A.I. > But I always think that if we’re going to h…

> Thiel: [...] The way the Antichrist would take over the world is you talk about Armageddon nonstop.

Sincerely,

Guy Who Talks About Armageddon Nonstop

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#68

Post by krapp » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:51 PM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #33

krapp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Thiel is just putting an ill-defined pseudo-Christian facade around his AI accelerationist beliefs because he knows that in the current American right-wing climate evangelical Christianity is what drives political power particularly in tech. His "antichrist" is merely anyone or anything standing between him and as much money and power as possible.

this argument is weakened by welding large bulky statements together.. IMO each part there is a tip of a dynamic-systems-iceburg. "He just does THIS" and "that is THIS" ... the short form medium kills inquiry. A studied person once admonished me "avoid the word IS when comparing systems in the abstract"

Did this studied person teach you how to make a salient point because it seems like you're just criticizing grammar.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#69

Post by anjel » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:54 PM UTC

merelydev wrote: post #7

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

In England, ca. 1500s common law established the legal precedent that if your cattle broke loose of its pen, wandered into your neighbor's field and trampled their garden, you were liable for the damage your cattle caused.

Meanwhile, 500 years later Uber could disrupt the livery industry with VC cash that rendered a NY cab's owner/operator 6-figure financed medalion license worthless, and somehow that wasn't Uber's problem.

Now AI (set loose in the wild at the AI industry's strategic choice so as to be irreversible) seems poised to disrupt and render a very significant part of the labor force disrupted on an unprecedented societal scale and it appears to be a foregone conclusion that collateral damages won't be the causal industry's expense. Nevermind that its also poised to easily afford those social costs, and don't even consider that maybe society should be considering this obvious cause and effect. For me at least the feudal suppression of this otherwise obvious and necessary discussion is perhaps more spectacular than the causal technological breakthrough itself.

Now *that's* control.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#70

Post by britzkopf » Sat, May 30, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

knollimar wrote: post #65

britzkopf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the alternative to buildings? Outdoor schools, factories and dental offices?

That sounds like some reductionist hackernews question that tries to hint at some clever insight but I'll assume no snark and answer with as much insight as I can. You just make less of them. Some buildings are discretionary, like your big apartment buildings you probably want (these were the two that got cancelled). Person funding can make x profit over building per year. Person loaning loans x for y sum. Building c…

Funny that you're accusation of snark was not without snark itself. I'll take your word on it for the level of discretion on some public building, though I would have thought/hoped that whimsy would play no more role than a rinsing error. Especially in the current economy. Maybe it's good there is less superfluous building going on?