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The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

shkspr.mobi

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Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

hilariously wrote: post #23
lowercased wrote: post #5

My spouse did business at a collector show in Illinois years ago. We filed some sales tax thing, as we collected sales tax (as we were told to do) and remitted it. Did that for... 2 years, IIRC, then didn't do that show again. We got letters threatening that we would be penalized if we didn't fill out the form and remit our collected tax. There was no option to say 'nothing'. I mean... we did one year - put 0. Then w…

Huh, in my state the secretary of state is where you register a business, and you just go to the website and click "this is no longer operating" and then they stop sending you letters to file your 0 taxes.

Same.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#62

Post by jonathanlydall »

lowercased wrote: post #5

My spouse did business at a collector show in Illinois years ago. We filed some sales tax thing, as we collected sales tax (as we were told to do) and remitted it. Did that for... 2 years, IIRC, then didn't do that show again. We got letters threatening that we would be penalized if we didn't fill out the form and remit our collected tax. There was no option to say 'nothing'. I mean... we did one year - put 0. Then w…

In South Africa we have a TV license which any shop selling TV’s is required by law to report the buyer’s TV license number for any purchase.

The idea is that it funds public broadcasting and productions thereof, but like a lot of SOEs here, there is loads of corruption and inefficiencies, I only use my TV for streaming of content which is not produced locally, so I resent having to pay it each year.

However, it’s apparently a mission to get off it, even if you sell your TV you’re most certainly going to be harassed for years by debt collectors and what not.

Unlike your case though (where I expect the fine is not nothing), it’s only like R250/y (like 13USD) and they’ve smartly (which is surprising for an otherwise largely incompetent org), made it easy to pay. I get an SMS reminder and can have paid it by credit card within 2 minutes. So I’ll probably not bother trying to get off it as it’s so much more effort and a pretty small amount of money and hassle.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#63

Post by SoftTalker »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #53
lowercased wrote: post #5

My spouse did business at a collector show in Illinois years ago. We filed some sales tax thing, as we collected sales tax (as we were told to do) and remitted it. Did that for... 2 years, IIRC, then didn't do that show again. We got letters threatening that we would be penalized if we didn't fill out the form and remit our collected tax. There was no option to say 'nothing'. I mean... we did one year - put 0. Then w…

Illinois online forms are egregiously bad. A couple examples off the top of my head: I was traveling through the state and got on a toll road by accident without cash to pay the tolls, the toll booth employee said I could just pay online, pointing to a sign that said "missed a toll? pay online at ", so we continued our trip intending to pay the tolls online. At the end of the trip, I logged on to pay our tolls--the a…

Illinois is one of the most administratively fucked up and corrupt states in the country. Four of the last ten governors have been so bad they actually served prison time and the current governor appears to be cut from the same cloth.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/4-of-illinois-past-10-governo...

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#64

Post by pixelesque »

gambiting wrote: post #54
rwmj wrote: post #29

So much UK govt bureaucracy could be removed. Like tax returns - they have the data already, just send me a bill, and let me query it if I disagree (like it works in other European countries). Or Making Tax Digital, which incredibly is worse than the previous system. Or VAT registration/returns which my partner has to do, which overlap with MTD and acts like a kind of second tax system.

I mean, 90% of employees on the UK(I imagine it's probably 99%) don't ever have to file any taxes - it's all done automatically through PAYE. Only in certain specific circumstances you need to file a self assessment. So yes, I sympathise with the administrative burden for UK businesses, but for employees the system is basically better than almost anywhere else in the world.

Why are people down-voting this?

It's generally correct: If you're self-employed / sole trader and operating outside IR-35, there's no way the HMRC can know how much you were paid as they don't have the info, so they can't know how much tax you owe.

In other situations for payrole / salary (like PAYE for example) they do have the info, as companies have to submit it, so generally people in those situations don't have to submit tax returns (unless they have significant capital gains).

I do think it's a bit annoying you have to declare tax on interest since 2016 if it's over £1000 - previously banks would take it out automatically, and this is still done in other countries (NZ for example).

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#65

Post by IshKebab »

CM30 wrote: post #12

Why doesn't it just default to "no purchase" if the user doesn't do anything? Logically you'd think this sort of system would only make you log in and do anything if there was anything to report. Why was it designed the way described in the article to begin with?

Because then you don't have the "I forgot" excuse.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#66

Post by gramie »

Scoundreller wrote: post #42
em-bee wrote: post #36

in a way i like the system in china. they simply force you to use their software to print invoices or receipts on government supplied numbered invoice paper, which automatically reports every sale. if there is no sale you don't need to do anything, because it's practically not possible to make a sale without printing a receipt and have it reported. for end consumer sales for a while the receipt paper had a scratch fi…

Restaurants in Quebec are similar: forcibly integrated into a provincial sales tax system and part of your receipt has some government segment. Largely because unscrupulous restaurants had, I think they were called “zippers” to perma-erase revenue/transactions. Some EU countries did a “if you don’t get a receipt, you don’t have to pay”, which erased the concept of a bar tab. During a drinking session with friends, yo…

In Canada, I have to report my (small) self-employment income.

The other thing I have to do is enter deductions like moving expenses, tuition, charitable donations, medical expenses, etc., which the government doesn't have direct access to.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#67

Post by alibarber »

rwmj wrote: post #29

So much UK govt bureaucracy could be removed. Like tax returns - they have the data already, just send me a bill, and let me query it if I disagree (like it works in other European countries). Or Making Tax Digital, which incredibly is worse than the previous system. Or VAT registration/returns which my partner has to do, which overlap with MTD and acts like a kind of second tax system.

I’ve never submitted a tax return in the UK as a simple PAYE employee.

In another European country where I work (Finland) it’s as you describe but it’s still more than doing absolutely nothing that I did in the UK.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#68

Post by tardedmeme »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #53
lowercased wrote: post #5

My spouse did business at a collector show in Illinois years ago. We filed some sales tax thing, as we collected sales tax (as we were told to do) and remitted it. Did that for... 2 years, IIRC, then didn't do that show again. We got letters threatening that we would be penalized if we didn't fill out the form and remit our collected tax. There was no option to say 'nothing'. I mean... we did one year - put 0. Then w…

Illinois online forms are egregiously bad. A couple examples off the top of my head: I was traveling through the state and got on a toll road by accident without cash to pay the tolls, the toll booth employee said I could just pay online, pointing to a sign that said "missed a toll? pay online at ", so we continued our trip intending to pay the tolls online. At the end of the trip, I logged on to pay our tolls--the a…

I feel like half of these are quickly resolved in court when you explain what happened and the judge calls the state a bunch of fucking morons and dismisses the case. But the other half of the time the judge won't use common sense. Also the state is relying on you not wanting to show up in front of a judge out of your own state to contest what I presume is a relatively small amount of dollars.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#69

Post by alibarber »

pixelesque wrote: post #64
gambiting wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, 90% of employees on the UK(I imagine it's probably 99%) don't ever have to file any taxes - it's all done automatically through PAYE. Only in certain specific circumstances you need to file a self assessment. So yes, I sympathise with the administrative burden for UK businesses, but for employees the system is basically better than almost anywhere else in the world.

Why are people down-voting this? It's generally correct: If you're self-employed / sole trader and operating outside IR-35, there's no way the HMRC can know how much you were paid as they don't have the info, so they can't know how much tax you owe. In other situations for payrole / salary (like PAYE for example) they do have the info, as companies have to submit it, so generally people in those situations don't have…

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good narrative it seems.

Re: The UK government's Low Value Purchase System is a waste of time

#70

Post by IshKebab »

RobotToaster wrote: post #9

The ridiculous system of "you have to tell us you've done nothing" seems endemic in the UK government.

No it makes perfect sense. Otherwise you'd have to endlessly deal with people who "forgot" to tell you they'd done something.

The main problems are a) logging into gov.uk to do it is endlessly tedious, and b) monthly?? I thought all the childcare reconfirmations and security questions were bad enough.

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