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Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

arstechnica.com

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#61
post #6

Wait, wait, wait: browsers allow websites to store junk on my drive? They take up gigabytes of memory and still write to disk on top of this? Without even asking whether the site can use local storage? Years and years back when laptops still had HDDs, I had a script to put the Firefox profile &c on a ramdisk and sync it on reboots so that it didn't spin up the drive constantly. I guess I should have kept doing it. It…

Browsers have an absolute insane level of relatively unchecked permissions to do whatever they want on a client. There's a lot of effort by browser developers to scope creep the browser into essentially being an OS-agnostic tech stack (one where, conveniently, code can be shipped across the network "as necessary", removing a lot of user agency for the software being ran); Chrome being the biggest driver of this, whil…

Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#62
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without even asking whether the site can use local storage? Where did you see this in the article? I had some recollection that Firefox at least did require asking the user.

Firefox doesn't ask permission just to use localstorage, no modern browser does this. The closest thing you get is when a site wants to persist storage with "navigator.storage.persist()", which should prompt you for permission. But localstorage data usually persists anyway, and only gets deleted if the browser's storage is "under pressure", so I've never personally worked on a site or web app that had to use that API…

I don't think LocalStorage allows you to store gigs of data though, and IIRC this method depended on the Origin-Private File System API.

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers have an absolute insane level of relatively unchecked permissions to do whatever they want on a client. There's a lot of effort by browser developers to scope creep the browser into essentially being an OS-agnostic tech stack (one where, conveniently, code can be shipped across the network "as necessary", removing a lot of user agency for the software being ran); Chrome being the biggest driver of this, whil…

Flash ended up getting blocked/banned by all browsers because it turned into a giant gaping security hole. > By January 2021, all major browsers were blocking all Flash content unconditionally. It looks like we-the-users need to be blocking any and every one of these parasites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash

I have a feeling they may have pushed for that more because it was controlled by a third party, and not the browser developers themselves.

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers have an absolute insane level of relatively unchecked permissions to do whatever they want on a client. There's a lot of effort by browser developers to scope creep the browser into essentially being an OS-agnostic tech stack (one where, conveniently, code can be shipped across the network "as necessary", removing a lot of user agency for the software being ran); Chrome being the biggest driver of this, whil…

Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

Unfortunately, real apps and native tech stacks can not only write data to your SSD, they can usually write data to the user directory however they want and they can read it as well!

Browsers are at least somewhat sandboxed

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#65
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this obviously a capability of Web browsers? The main capability is RCE, but it seems that they need a way to store the payload.

There's a whole trend with websites not uploading anything to their servers due to privacy and whatnot, where do you suppose the data is being saved for repeat visits...

What your'e describing I would expect to be measured in kilobytes, not tens of gigabytes.

There is no reason for any person to think that a website needs to store data sized in the "full Ubuntu install" range to facilitate repeat visits.

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#67
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without even asking whether the site can use local storage? Where did you see this in the article? I had some recollection that Firefox at least did require asking the user.

Firefox doesn't ask permission just to use localstorage, no modern browser does this. The closest thing you get is when a site wants to persist storage with "navigator.storage.persist()", which should prompt you for permission. But localstorage data usually persists anyway, and only gets deleted if the browser's storage is "under pressure", so I've never personally worked on a site or web app that had to use that API…

[deleted]

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#68
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox doesn't ask permission just to use localstorage, no modern browser does this. The closest thing you get is when a site wants to persist storage with "navigator.storage.persist()", which should prompt you for permission. But localstorage data usually persists anyway, and only gets deleted if the browser's storage is "under pressure", so I've never personally worked on a site or web app that had to use that API…

Btw. as per EU law (GDPR) website owners are required to aquire informed consent for any kind of client side storage if it contains information that is personal. And it has been ruled that any information that can be used to identify returning users is such. People think the GDPR is just about cookies, but it is agnostic of the technology used. Maximum fines: €20 million, or 4% of the company's total worldwide annual…

This doesn't really address the issue here. The condition here is that a site might decide that it needs to store (say) a copy of the Red Hat server installation package on each user's local machine (20GB) to facilitate repeat visits.

The stored data is not related to the user at all. The problem is that the website gets to silently write 20GB to the user's disk.

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#69
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers have an absolute insane level of relatively unchecked permissions to do whatever they want on a client. There's a lot of effort by browser developers to scope creep the browser into essentially being an OS-agnostic tech stack (one where, conveniently, code can be shipped across the network "as necessary", removing a lot of user agency for the software being ran); Chrome being the biggest driver of this, whil…

Now that we have AI, can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks? And revert the browser to a text-display interface?

> can we go back to real apps and native tech stacks

Please God, no. If you're worried about the invasiveness of browser-based apps, native is out of the frying pan and into the fire

Re: Websites have a new way to spy on visitors: analyzing their SSD activity

#70
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole trend with websites not uploading anything to their servers due to privacy and whatnot, where do you suppose the data is being saved for repeat visits...

What your'e describing I would expect to be measured in kilobytes, not tens of gigabytes. There is no reason for any person to think that a website needs to store data sized in the "full Ubuntu install" range to facilitate repeat visits.

> There is no reason for any person to think that a website needs to store data sized in the "full Ubuntu install" range to facilitate repeat visits.

Do you think people expect that for apps they've installed? Should those also be limited to a few MB?

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