Live data from Hacker News

Why the smart home bubble popped

hackaday.com

61–70 of 107 posts

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#61

The reason really is the extreme arrogance of every single manufacturer that wants you to install their app and use their ecosystem. That might have worked if one of them became super dominant and pushed everyone else out. But because that didn't happen, now I have to install 20 apps for 20 different manufacturers with no guarantees of interoperability. Instead of that I'm choosing to vote with my wallet and mostly s…

The worst part of this is half of these are the same white labelled tuya devices that can simply bind to each other's apps or the original tuya app..

And half of them completely disable local network access... Like why?!

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#62

The smartest thing is having a light switch you walk over to. Doesn’t fail randomly, doesn’t need an internet connection to operate, doesn’t stop working when your internet is down. My garage remote is in a PIN number lock box next to the garage. Open lock box, press remote, close lock box. That’s smart.

My setup: philips hue switches in 3dprinted boxes on top of (currently perma-on) dump switches.

Smart home works? good

Smart home dies? remove the smart switches (held in place by magnets) - and the buttons of dumb switches are exposed. Lights have power-on behavior configured, so they act as dumb lights in this case.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#63
post #62

The smartest thing is having a light switch you walk over to. Doesn’t fail randomly, doesn’t need an internet connection to operate, doesn’t stop working when your internet is down. My garage remote is in a PIN number lock box next to the garage. Open lock box, press remote, close lock box. That’s smart.

My setup: philips hue switches in 3dprinted boxes on top of (currently perma-on) dump switches. Smart home works? good Smart home dies? remove the smart switches (held in place by magnets) - and the buttons of dumb switches are exposed. Lights have power-on behavior configured, so they act as dumb lights in this case.

I love Philips hue , probably the only light smart automation that is really worth it.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#64
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is a solution to that. It's a standard pathway for things to talk to (say) a light bulb. The control interface is local, not cloud-based. And configuring a Matter device from $random_company doesn't require $random_company's bizarro-world app; instead, it involves a QR code or a short alphanumeric sequence. That Matter light bulb still needs something to control it, but the light bulb is not tied to one contro…

It's also a bit of a trap. Many devices "work with Matter" but either they don't really until a future firmware update, and even then, a lot of them have certain features locked into the vendor app. There's also complications around networking. Matter over WiFi works great if your networking gear can withstand potentially hundreds of devices connected. Matter over Thread seem to work under specific conditions, but I…

I've heard of these "works with Matter"-but-not-without-help devices, but haven't encountered one yet. I just take random cheap Matter devices out of the box, scan the QR code with HA, power them up, and they work.

I get all of the features I think I'd want out of something like a light bulb or a wall switch that just responds to commands and reports status. :)

None of my stuff uses Thread yet. I'm cheap, so I tend to buy home automation gear at the very low end of the market and Thread just isn't quite there yet.

Anyway, Zigbee.

I was using Zigbee when that still mostly bare dev and demo boards, >20 years ago. It was neat then (I was using it to consolidate RS-485 serial comms between a bunch of gear mounted on different radio towers), and it's still neat today.

But in home automation, Zigbee has been problematic for me, with devices going offline and coming back according to some unseen agenda. I've gathered that "right way" to fix that is apparently to use repeater-capable devices here or there, but meh: I'd rather build a proper wifi network (with hardwired access points) than buy weird stuff I don't need, put it in places where it isn't otherwise useful, and let Zigbee form its own unsteered mesh.

It just makes more sense to me to build a single wireless network, than to build multiple wireless networks. So I built a proper-enough wifi network with some Mikrotik hardware and that's what I use.

But I still have one Zigbee device (a temperature sensor) and it's been working fine for years. I don't track the rate at which it eats coin cells as well as I could, but I probably get a little over a year out of a random Chinese cell and they don't cost much.

In terms of wireless bandwidth: I find it only sensible at this point to consider 2.4ghz to be trash. It's not worth preserving. Internet speeds (and needs) keep increasing, and that means that 2.4ghz decreases in relative usefulness for work that requires high speed data. And all of my serious devices have 5ghz radios, anyway, and have had them for a long time.

Its biggest strength is also its biggest limitation: Penetration through walls tends to be better, and that means that the band gets stuffed up with noise from the neighbors more than 5ghz does.

It seems OK to make phone calls using a Bluetooth headset at short ranges, though. And it's plenty good-enough to tell a light bulb to turn on or off, run a music streamer, or play with esp32 and pi pico projects.

So even though many others seem to despise the concept: I'm quite deliberately centered on using 2.4ghz wifi for home automation stuff. It works well. I think I reached this position rationally. :)

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#65

The smart home is a thousand small problems to solve and should never be one catch all. The automatic cat feeder works well. So does the roomba. I like my automated blinds but will stick with manual light switches. I consolidated my home theatre remotes. Note how they’re all seperate problems. The smart home is here. It’s just that it was never a use case for a singular smart home platform. It was always 1000 seperat…

You can have manual light switches and home automation. I have exactly that, but given I built a new house with KNX integration. All light switches are physical switches and can on/off and dim the lights. The only difference is, they are not hardwired to the lamps, instead they go to the KNX machine. So if I want I can always decide what switch does what.

I have a singular smart home platform with one exception: my Dreame cleaning robot. Everything else is either integrated into KNX (lights, appliances, pool, window blinds, etc.) or Ubiquiti (cameras and doors).

But again, new building and I made the mission clear: everything has to fit into this system. Was an interesting work for the electrician ;).

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a bit of a trap. Many devices "work with Matter" but either they don't really until a future firmware update, and even then, a lot of them have certain features locked into the vendor app. There's also complications around networking. Matter over WiFi works great if your networking gear can withstand potentially hundreds of devices connected. Matter over Thread seem to work under specific conditions, but I…

I've heard of these "works with Matter"-but-not-without-help devices, but haven't encountered one yet. I just take random cheap Matter devices out of the box, scan the QR code with HA, power them up, and they work. I get all of the features I think I'd want out of something like a light bulb or a wall switch that just responds to commands and reports status. :) None of my stuff uses Thread yet. I'm cheap, so I tend t…

I hear you!

Interestingly enough, I agree that cheap Matter over WiFi devices work well. I have a bunch of Moes lightbulbs and they worked out of the box, except one that seems to lose its connection after a few minutes of pairing - still pretty good out of about 30, each costing £3-4.

The bigger brands are the worst offenders - SwitchBot, Meross and Tapo are all problematic to an extent.

I'm also just building a solid WiFi network for these devices. If nothing else, I can troubleshoot WiFi a lot more easily than either Thread or Zigbee.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#67
Oldie but goldie:

Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future!

Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#68
post #17

I think it’s also just that there’s not that much it makes sense to automate in the home. I run Home Assistant, and I do not have much of the typical home stuff on it. Why would I want to automate lights? My cat feeder has a timer already. I’m not about to get a smart lock and can’t imagine why I would want to automate one. The useful things I do use it for are: -heating control to take advantage of cheaper electric…

> Why would I want to automate lights? Wait until you're disabled and there are days you can't get out of bed. Having your bedroom lights fade in at low brightness a few minutes before your alarm goes off is also really nice. If you live in an area that's not great time wise there are also a lot of arguments to be made for making it look like your home is occupied when you're away.

[dead]

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#69
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a building that had that kind of "smart" controls. It was anything but. In practice, it started opening and closing shutters for no reason, when clouds obscured the sun, and then went away. Or even when some sort of reflection hit some sensor, somewhere in the building. I'm sure it's doable, but unlike factories, where automation is related to income and thus profits, most commercial buildings are built b…

Right. It works for hotels, because, if your hotel conference rooms are uncomfortable, some conferences will switch hotels next year. So there's a strong business case for getting HVAC control right. Schools and colleges have the same HVAC problem, with huge variations in people load, but don't have the same incentive to get it right. (I once found a computer room in the Gates Building at Stanford that had two packag…

[dead]

Re: Why the smart home bubble popped

#70
Despite being a techie and loving playing with gadgets, I've only recently (in the last year) got anything smart home related. The TP-Link smart plugs are great - they enable me to control a power socket over wifi/internet, so I can remotely reboot my media server, or properly power off our bedroom TV rather than leaving it on standby.
Post reply on HN