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Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

hollandtech.net

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Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#61

Post by Paracompact »

devin wrote: post #52
amarant wrote: post #18

Re: "the attaboy problem". I strongly disagree that this is a problem. What we have is a anthropomorphism problem. AI is a tool. It needs to be subservient. You actually can get it to point out issues in your design, if you just put enough humility and uncertainty in your prompt formulation, but more importantly, we have all seen that Claude makes mistakes. The title of this post is that it's a poor architect. Imagin…

The flip side of this problem is that it is also easy to phrase prompt in a way that invites _too much_ criticism, so you wind up sycophantic in the other direction where the completion rejects a perfectly good idea because the prompt leads a little bit in that direction. One reaction to this might be "well that's not what I mean, that suggests you're prompting with too much directionality" which could further be con…

What it actually suggests is that the AI's response to these questions of judgment have little correlation with the thing it's judging. Sure, you can get it to be complimentary, if you want it to be. Sure, you can get it be critical, if you want it to be. But what if I don't know if my design needs to be complimented or critiqued in this instance? This is the default position when seeking input, and so "prompt with more/less humility" is like telling you to solve your own problems and then just use AI to confirm your bias---because it will rarely contradict your bias.

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#63

Post by mceachen »

erelong wrote: post #19

it seems like you just need to identify issues with vibe coding and then have people ask ai for tips on how to know about how to navigate those, I've seen "architecture" and "security" come up as two main objections so far So... manually learn architecture and security and then vibe code away?

Nope, current flagship models are very happy to make huge missteps across the whole development stack of design, planning, implementation, and testing -- but playing different models against each other can help catch more egregious issues.

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#64

Post by bluegatty »

regularfry wrote: post #57
bluegatty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where AI has deterministic inputs and outputs it is extremely good to the point I think that there's a theoretical issue around computational there. Like - it can do the work for us. It jives with post training and verifiable rewards. The reason AI doesn't do well at 'architecture' is 1) are are bad at it and have given it a lot of mush and 2) we don't have good abstractions for it. The result is - you stick to 'v…

I have found that if you give it a pre-baked architecture to work within it works really well. It's not really what you'd use here, but just saying "this project uses a ports and adapters architecture" can stop it from generating mush by default. I think it's not so much that they're bad at it as that they don't have a clear reason to pick something other than mush. And not just "something" - a specific something, fr…

Yes, totally,with examples and references.

But there's something existential there maybe?

NASA says, any time you make a program that has a new 'launch vehicle' (aka architecture) - the whole project is the 'launch vehicle'.

'Oh, you want use a new architecture? Welcome to the cesspit of hallucination!'

Basically, there's a lot more complexity than we might imagine 'hidden in the nothingness' of he unknown.

Pick a 'known off-the-shelf launch vehicle' first ... then you design the landing craft

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#66

Post by tayo42 »

The attaboy problem

I thought this happened alot. I started using chatgpt to critique my new art hobby and also help me learn unreal engine.

It's basically tearing into me on the art. It's almost ruthless, especially with the verbosity it's like I get it.

Using it for unreal engine, it pushes back on alot of my begginer ideas and how to write code that uses the engine. It corrects me alot. It's called things I wrote becasue I was lazy sloppy or quick hacks that work for now.

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#67

Post by vrc »

wild_egg wrote: post #54
operatingthetan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anthropomorphism problem. AI is a tool. It needs to be subservient. Suggesting it should be 'subservient' is also anthropomorphizing. I think your callout is correct, but you still can't help but refer to it in terms we use for other people or living entities. This is by design from the AI companies.

We train dogs to be subservient but that doesn't automatically mean we anthropomorphize them

It's widely hypothesized that dogs anthropomorphized themselves, so to speak, accentuating their expressive eyes and eyebrows over generations to be more human-like in how they communicate. And very few humans today view their dogs as pure working tools -- most at least say "good boy".

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#68

Post by andai »

>It hasn’t thought about the problem at all. It’s pattern-matching against its training data and producing the most plausible-sounding response. But it sounds so good that nobody pushes back.

Well, can you prompt it to think about the problem?

> A good architect’s most important skill isn’t designing systems. It’s knowing which systems not to build. It’s pushing back on complexity. It’s asking “why?” five times until the actual requirement emerges from the aspirational nonsense. It’s telling the CTO that their conference-inspired idea is a terrible fit for the team they actually have.

Except for that last one, that all sounds very solvable. Of course, the last one is the most important one. But most humans will struggle there too.

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#69

Post by huflungdung »

amarant wrote: post #18

Re: "the attaboy problem". I strongly disagree that this is a problem. What we have is a anthropomorphism problem. AI is a tool. It needs to be subservient. You actually can get it to point out issues in your design, if you just put enough humility and uncertainty in your prompt formulation, but more importantly, we have all seen that Claude makes mistakes. The title of this post is that it's a poor architect. Imagin…

[dead]

Re: Claude is not your architect. Stop letting it pretend

#70

Post by kgeist »

sevenzero wrote: post #28
pelario wrote: post #27

> It hasn’t thought about the problem at all. It’s pattern-matching against its training data and producing the most plausible-sounding response. The article kind of lost me here. Agents are way more than that, today. And the author knows it, as later it says stuff like > Claude will never do this. It’s trained to be helpful. But the first phrase just tell me author just have a deep dislike for agents and it's lookin…

>Agents are way more than that, today. Not really though. They just iterate more and more.

Isn't that how many people program too? I remember some idea or pattern from previous projects, or something I read about on the internet. Then I code it in the most straighforward way, whatever comes to mind first. Then I sit back and analyze: does it look good architecturally? Do I like it? Does it even compile? Then I rewrite some parts to make it more sound. Rinse and repeat, until I'm satisfied. I usually don't come up with entirely novel ideas on the first attempt. I usually just rehash known concepts over the course of many iterations.
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