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Deno 2.8

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Re: Deno 2.8

#61

Post by gslepak »

vmg12 wrote: post #42
dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

Deno and Bun had very different focuses when they launched. Deno was trying to fix a lot of what Ryan (the original creator of Node) thought was wrong with Node. Bun focused on compatibility with Node and the ability to run popular frameworks like Nextjs from the beginning. A lot of dependencies and frameworks simply did not work with Deno for a long time. In the beginning it didn't even have the ability to install d…

> In hindsight with all the npm supply chain attacks Ryan was probably right about all of these things

"Probably"? Are you saying there's a chance he wasn't right?

I really think Ryan deserves a lot more credit than a "probably". He put in a lot of effort to do the right thing and improve the security of the entire ecosystem he created.

Re: Deno 2.8

#62

Post by IshKebab »

I don't know why they copied NPM's backwards `npm install/ci` thing. Most people think that `install` does use the lock file.

Re: Deno 2.8

#63

Post by VerifiedReports »

vmg12 wrote: post #42
dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

Deno and Bun had very different focuses when they launched. Deno was trying to fix a lot of what Ryan (the original creator of Node) thought was wrong with Node. Bun focused on compatibility with Node and the ability to run popular frameworks like Nextjs from the beginning. A lot of dependencies and frameworks simply did not work with Deno for a long time. In the beginning it didn't even have the ability to install d…

I started a new project with Deno specifically to avoid the NPM mess, and because it was created by Node's creator to fix its shortcomings. I'm new to Web development, but so far the experience has been pretty good.

Nice to see Deno being maintained. The features listed seem pretty substantial.

Re: Deno 2.8

#64

Post by VerifiedReports »

vorticalbox wrote: post #55
dan_rock_wilson wrote: post #26

Deno: has a basic permission model that is very helpful, written in Rust, and native TypeScript support. I'm not deep in the webdev / node / Bun ecosystems, I've just been a happy user of Deno for small services for several years. Can someone explain why it sounds like there's such rapid growth of Bun? Is it just being used as a bundler, but not as JS runtime? Just the permission system alone (though I wish it extend…

I think the main issue was when deno first came out it used urls for imports then later added support for npm. By then bun was already a thing and just ate into its share.

Why do you consider URLs a problem?

Re: Deno 2.8

#65

Post by IshKebab »

Curosinono wrote: post #41

I don't get it why the hell is TypeScript still not nativly supported in modern browsers?

There wouldn't be any benefit. It's not sound so it can't really be used to improve performance.

There was a proposal to support TypeScript syntax, but ignore the actual types (this is basically how Python works). That would be kind of nice because you can skip the compilation step completely (less faff for small projects), but I don't think it went anywhere... or if it is it's getting there at a snail's pace:

https://github.com/tc39/proposal-type-annotations

Re: Deno 2.8

#66

Post by neals »

appplication wrote: post #40
neals wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to have some options, to prevent the ecosystem from stalling

I agree philosophically, but the JavaScript ecosystem has never been languishing for lack of options. If anything, excessive fragmentation is a real concern.

Interesting, I'm not aware of that many nodejs alternatives...

Re: Deno 2.8

#67

Post by simonw »

matt_kantor wrote: post #34
simonw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was Bun at Anthropic, not uv at OpenAI. (UPDATE: My mistake, this thread is about Bun, not uv.)

Is this a joke I'm not getting or are your wires crossed? Bun is the topic of this subthread.

Huh, you're right. I'd just been reading this other thread about uv and got my wires crossed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48228788

Re: Deno 2.8

#68

Post by CharlesW »

3uler wrote: post #38
yroc92 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use (and like) both. Bun is a drop-in replacement for node. If you don't want to fuss with test config, tsconfig, esmodules, etc., I find that it just works. Deno has a nice standard lib, great CLI support, and I used to love deno deploy but its gotten very clunky these days.

But if you look at the node compliance tests, deno has better compliance now days…

Insanely better, at 76% Node compliance in Deno 2.8.

Bun 1.3.14 is at just 40.6% with same compliance test.

https://node-test-viewer.deno.dev/

Re: Deno 2.8

#69

Post by afavour »

pjmlp wrote: post #22
afavour wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually lost interest in Deno once it started leaning into NPM. I thought it was a bold and wise idea to make a clean break from the mess of Node and restart with a sensible ecosystem. Absent that... I'm just sticking with Node.

As someone that works in projects with standard IT tools, not supporting NPM made it a non starter for us. No way it would go through standard build pipelines, or team skills.

Oh, for sure. But I'm old enough to remember when standard IT tools would have never supported Node in the first place and the idea of JS on the server made everyone scream. You just need to build demand for that support.
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