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Why I don’t vibe code

jacobharr.is

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Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#61

Post by aogaili »

wieie wrote: post #56
aogaili wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers were not solving hard problems. The last decade was brutal—mainly frameworks, libraries, configurations, etc. The hard problems were in research. And regarding the gym, sure, you might enjoy lifting dumbbells and solving puzzles to sharpen your brain. But that is not what engineers are hired for; they are hired to deliver a system using the best tools available. You can choose to farm by hand while the ind…

These comparison don’t capture reality at all… wish people would stop doing them.

Which part of reality does it not capture?

I've been in the field for 20 years, and I do think the situation is analogous. We might not like it or we might deny it, but the fact is, LLMs do automate the mechanical part of thinking. Some people might not accept that, but that is the reality given my subjective experience and the experience of many others who are using the tool.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#62

Post by pijon »

ge96 wrote: post #51

I'm getting tempted to because I have so much work to do for my "startup" and after my 8hr day job I'm burnt. It's not even that I don't know what to do it's a lot of work... swift iPhone app, the api, the web app and gcp. get that feeling of being overwhelmed and also end of day brain just feels like shit, thinking I'll drink more caffeine after gym eg. 6:30 PM will see if I can sleep.

if you are serious about building a startup the best choice you could make is to learn to use these tools intelligently. ESPECIALLY if what you are building is an app…

virtually everyone building a startup uses these tools to automate a huge chunk of the work. you have no real chance otherwise.

my advice is to get on the cheap claude code sub and to check out the superpowers plugin.

the idea of the plugin is to help you create a “design” plan which promotoes to an “implementation” plan.

the former is a high level architecture decisions which YOU TAKE and use the agent to browse different approaches that might work.

the latter is the concrete steps the agent will take after you click execute. every file change documented, every migration required, etc. very easy to oversee it

just my 2 cents (as someone working on startups)

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#63

Post by leptons »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #49
leptons wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing agentic coding with Claude Max, and it's like giving methamphetamine to a software developer. When I run out of tokens, I pay for extra. It doesn't feel good, but I do it because I didn't write the codebase - the drug dealer did. Just one more "fix" and the code should be good to ship. Oh no, out of tokens again? Just one more "fix", and another. And the code that the AI writes is sprawling and almost incom…

The future is local LLMs. So still methamphetamines but open source, free and an unlimited supply.

That won't really change anything, and in fact make the problem worse. It would be like "getting high on your own supply". Or just making meth at home so you can do it all the time. There's still a "drug dealer" in between you and the code. And you're going to have to pay $$$$ for hardware good enough to not slow you down. I've tried local models on an nVidia 4060 and it's pretty slow.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#64

Post by aogaili »

suddenlybananas wrote: post #43
aogaili wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers were not solving hard problems. The last decade was brutal—mainly frameworks, libraries, configurations, etc. The hard problems were in research. And regarding the gym, sure, you might enjoy lifting dumbbells and solving puzzles to sharpen your brain. But that is not what engineers are hired for; they are hired to deliver a system using the best tools available. You can choose to farm by hand while the ind…

Some developers solve hard problems and some don't. It depends entirely on your specific work.

Indeed. But my argument is that a lot of those hard problems were, in fact, already solved; some people made a career out of solving the same problems over and over again. The fact that we have a tool to automate the lower tier of problem-solving doesn't mean we are no longer solving problems—it just means we are being asked to solve higher-order problems.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#65

Post by aogaili »

suddenlybananas wrote: post #43
aogaili wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers were not solving hard problems. The last decade was brutal—mainly frameworks, libraries, configurations, etc. The hard problems were in research. And regarding the gym, sure, you might enjoy lifting dumbbells and solving puzzles to sharpen your brain. But that is not what engineers are hired for; they are hired to deliver a system using the best tools available. You can choose to farm by hand while the ind…

Some developers solve hard problems and some don't. It depends entirely on your specific work.

What is also interesting is that what our brains perceive to be hard is mainly because we didn't evolve to deal with these kinds of problems. But as it turns out, automating logical problems is much easier than folding clothes.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#66

Post by ge96 »

pijon wrote: post #62
ge96 wrote: post #51

I'm getting tempted to because I have so much work to do for my "startup" and after my 8hr day job I'm burnt. It's not even that I don't know what to do it's a lot of work... swift iPhone app, the api, the web app and gcp. get that feeling of being overwhelmed and also end of day brain just feels like shit, thinking I'll drink more caffeine after gym eg. 6:30 PM will see if I can sleep.

if you are serious about building a startup the best choice you could make is to learn to use these tools intelligently. ESPECIALLY if what you are building is an app… virtually everyone building a startup uses these tools to automate a huge chunk of the work. you have no real chance otherwise. my advice is to get on the cheap claude code sub and to check out the superpowers plugin. the idea of the plugin is to help…

least suspicious account lol

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#67

Post by aogaili »

SJMG wrote: post #60
suddenlybananas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some developers solve hard problems and some don't. It depends entirely on your specific work.

Indeed, I solve hard problem for a living, but those are mostly design. The actual engineering often decomposes to gluing things together with limited need for new primitives. There are hard problems at every level of abstraction. TAGE predictor optimization up to handling data-center failover. I don't really have a challenge for people like the OP, I get it. I too dragged my feet, even mourned the death of a type of…

I agree, and this matches my experience as well.

After 20 years of coding, I do understand the grief and the sense of loss—I felt it deeply myself. But as an engineer, I was also captivated by the capabilities of the new systems. Watching these systems mechanize the thinking I had been doing for years, struggle in areas I used to struggle with, and even outperform me in some areas is nothing short of a magical experience, leaving all the anxiety about the job aside. Personally, I chose to focus on that magic, to see how far we can push these tools and discover what their limits are.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#68

Post by tasuki »

Aurornis wrote: post #41
extr wrote: post #16

This is like reading an article "I Don't Drive Cars" that goes on like - They're too expensive - My buddy's 1995 Accord breaks down a lot - Walking is healthier, plus you can stop and smell the roses - I enjoy caring for my horse - Sometimes you can get stuck in traffic Fine if that's the way you want and can afford to live your life. But it is an exotic luxury belief. For those of us who are participating in the eco…

You're going to get picked apart by people who live within walking distance or public transport distance of their office and don't understand why everyone else uses cars. If you can walk to your office and the temperature is always between 50 and 70 degrees F you would probably think cars are crazy, too. Which, funnily enough, proves the point even further. Some people get so comfortable in their bubble that they bec…

What a weird analogy.

I almost always walk to the office. The temperature range is a lot bigger (freezing in winter to uncomfortably hot in summer), and it's like 3 km, which many people wouldn't dream of walking. When my work was farther I used to cycle.

Most people can easily get to work without a car. Just depends on goals and motivations. Car is definitely the laziest way.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#69

Post by satvikpendem »

ge96 wrote: post #45
wvenable wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they do. And I could get them to pay even more but with the changes to copilot licensing, I'm not sure we will continue with it.

Is claude code any better for the value

Codex is the best value for money now in my usage.

Re: Why I don’t vibe code

#70

Post by Aurornis »

tasuki wrote: post #68
Aurornis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to get picked apart by people who live within walking distance or public transport distance of their office and don't understand why everyone else uses cars. If you can walk to your office and the temperature is always between 50 and 70 degrees F you would probably think cars are crazy, too. Which, funnily enough, proves the point even further. Some people get so comfortable in their bubble that they bec…

What a weird analogy. I almost always walk to the office. The temperature range is a lot bigger (freezing in winter to uncomfortably hot in summer), and it's like 3 km, which many people wouldn't dream of walking. When my work was farther I used to cycle. Most people can easily get to work without a car. Just depends on goals and motivations. Car is definitely the laziest way.

> Most people can easily get to work without a car.

This is statistically very false.

It does a good job of proving my point that people within this bubble have a hard time understanding what the rest of the world is like.

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