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Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

bbc.com

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Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#61

Post by RobotToaster »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #26
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though notably never anything really crazy like “let’s stop doing war”

I mean, that does sound pretty crazy. Specific wars are often ill-advised or largely pointless, but "stop doing war" presupposes that all other countries in the world will also "stop doing war", otherwise what you're suggesting is just unilateral surrender under the guise of stopping war.

Stopping doing wars doesn't mean not having a military capable of wars. It means not starting them. The US hasn't been involved in justified military action since the 40s.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#62

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

dacops wrote: post #8

Only veterans? I wonder about the editorial choice to use veterans rather than, say, women who have PTSD from assaults, which is a much larger group of people. (Approximately 4% of US men and 8% of US women experience PTSD every year across all reasons like accidents, sexual assaults, combat, etc.) Presumably this treatment would help everyone? Or is it somehow supporting only vets?

If this was a study on ptsd in assault survivors you could make the exact same comment asking why they didn’t try it in veterans (and I have no reason to doubt someone would)

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#63

Post by kreyenborgi »

reenorap wrote: post #36

The article acts like ibogaine is a newly discovered drug. This is an old hallucinagenix drug that has helped thousands of people get over ptsd. The only thing holding this back is government bureaucracy and red tape. I’m happy that people will get there chance to benefit from this after decades of stupid government policy.

> red tape

Just frame it as "this drug lets you send scarred soldiers right back into the fray for pennies" and see that red tape dissolve

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#64

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

esseph wrote: post #54
the__alchemist wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope - I mean PTSD. there is a growing body of evidence that PTSD may be caused (In many of most or the diagnosed cases) by concussions causing brain damage. This manifests from either enemy munitions, or the shock wave from your own artillery, explosives, or large-caliber weapons. The WWI name of "shell shock" describing the same phenomenon was probably more accurate than "PTSD".

What in the world are you talking about? There are 0 requirements for head trauma with PTSD, it's a stress response. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is the top tier, evidence based treatment for PTSD. 60-80% can actually lose their PTSD diagnosis through CBT in some studies. I'm not saying CBT is the magic cure, but it's very helpful for retraining the body's fight or flight response. For TBI, there is not really any am…

WW1 shellshock was a diagnosis consisting of an undifferentiated mix of concussion and ptsd, the diseases may have been completely untangled by now but it’s not impossible that there is still some blurring

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#65

Post by Aurornis »

sriacha wrote: post #27

Another very interesting possible benefit of ibogaine not mentioned in the article is potential for treating TBI. from https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41883580/ : >Longitudinal analyses assessed cortical thickness, subcortical volume, and predicted brain age (pBA), estimated from T1 scans. pBA was significantly reduced at 1 month relative to baseline (-1.3 years). Cortical thickness analysis revealed post-treatment i…

Open-label study, no control group, and ibogaine was not the only compound administered.

Any study like this is nearly useless without a control group, unfortunately. There is no way to tell if the treatment caused the changes or if they naturally occurred over the study period.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#66

Post by throwaway27448 »

dacops wrote: post #8

Only veterans? I wonder about the editorial choice to use veterans rather than, say, women who have PTSD from assaults, which is a much larger group of people. (Approximately 4% of US men and 8% of US women experience PTSD every year across all reasons like accidents, sexual assaults, combat, etc.) Presumably this treatment would help everyone? Or is it somehow supporting only vets?

I always associated it with treating opioid and alcohol addiction. I suspect there's something to do with funding here. Same with the whole "we could use MDMA to treat veterans" angle when veterans are a tiny percentage of the population worth treating with it.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#67

Post by throwaway27448 »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #62
dacops wrote: post #8

Only veterans? I wonder about the editorial choice to use veterans rather than, say, women who have PTSD from assaults, which is a much larger group of people. (Approximately 4% of US men and 8% of US women experience PTSD every year across all reasons like accidents, sexual assaults, combat, etc.) Presumably this treatment would help everyone? Or is it somehow supporting only vets?

If this was a study on ptsd in assault survivors you could make the exact same comment asking why they didn’t try it in veterans (and I have no reason to doubt someone would)

> you could make the exact same comment asking why they didn’t try it in veterans

That would be an extremely odd comment to make, though. Not only does the category "assault survivor" obviously not exclude veterans, why would you single them out to care about?

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#68

Post by throwaway27448 »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #26
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though notably never anything really crazy like “let’s stop doing war”

I mean, that does sound pretty crazy. Specific wars are often ill-advised or largely pointless, but "stop doing war" presupposes that all other countries in the world will also "stop doing war", otherwise what you're suggesting is just unilateral surrender under the guise of stopping war.

> presupposes that all other countries in the world will also "stop doing war"

No it doesn't. But making efforts to stop it ourselves is necessary to achieve that. Same reason it's worth doing nuclear disarmament: because not disarming guarantees nuclear war eventually.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#69

Post by throwaway27448 »

hunterpayne wrote: post #49
constantius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're strawmanning I think. My interpretation of the parent comment is: Americans should stop aggressing other countries, slaughtering the population, and then publishing scientific breakthroughs on treating ptsd among the killers. I'd say the comment says nothing about wars of survival, which is not what veterans have ptsd for. No one is 'doing war' at America.

Game theory and history say otherwise. If you want to be a fool, have at it. Just don't expect the rest of us to go along or respect you because of it.

States are not rational actors. Game theory does not apply to them.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#70

Post by dacops »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #62
dacops wrote: post #8

Only veterans? I wonder about the editorial choice to use veterans rather than, say, women who have PTSD from assaults, which is a much larger group of people. (Approximately 4% of US men and 8% of US women experience PTSD every year across all reasons like accidents, sexual assaults, combat, etc.) Presumably this treatment would help everyone? Or is it somehow supporting only vets?

If this was a study on ptsd in assault survivors you could make the exact same comment asking why they didn’t try it in veterans (and I have no reason to doubt someone would)

What a strange and presumptive thing to say. I'm wondering why not all PTSD cases, why specifically this relatively small group?

Like, obviously we should treat veterans with PTSD, but the article is unclear about whether it's just them.

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