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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#62
post #57

I have seen some of the inside of this and it's not quite as clear cut. One side of this is driven by a bunch of not too reputable think tanks behind the scenes who persuaded a couple of fringe academics to agree with them and push for it via the civil service. The government is taking bad, paid for advice. I don't know what the agenda is there but there is one and I reckon it's commercial. Probably a consortium of b…

This comment is a little unclear.

However no matter what the government or security services want, they won't be able to stop people who want to use VPN or End to end encryption. Nothing would ever change in that regard.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://bsky.app/profile/tupped.bsky.social/post/3lwgcmswmy2... "officials explained that the regulation in question was 'not primarily aimed at ... the protection of children', but was about regulating 'services that have a significant influence over public discourse'".

Isn't this presentation disingenuous? The act is called the "Online safety act" and the quote isn't about the "regulation" in its entirety but about what constitutes a "Category 1" service. Described in an official explainer, meant for the public, as "Large user-to-user services" under the heading of "Adults will have more control over the content they see"[1]. It's not clear to me that this is some nefarious underha…

This presentation seems entirely reasonable for the purposes of observing the stated goals, which differ from the purported goals. The act is being pitched as a means of "protecting children", which is also the mechanism making it harder for people to argue against it. It is entirely reasonable for people to observe that in practice the government is intending to use it to control online discourse.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#65
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are many things, but "fine" isn't one of them. How much the problems today are due to, rather than coincidental with, the internet, is a much more difficult thing to discern.

We are fine. You're just falling for the "*this" generation is different" fallacy. Look up some history if you think previous generations had it all sorted until the nasty internet came along and corrupted us.

I'm not saying past generations were fine. Every generation having problems doesn't mean the most recent ones don't.

What makes problems into disasters is denying that there is a problem until it is too late.

Past generations mostly tried (with varying success) to fix the problems in their world. Sometimes the past generations' solutions are good, like much of the world mandating 40 hour work weeks and public pensions and workplace health and safety and so on; other times even when the problem is real, the solutions are worse, like the US experience with prohibition.

But when problems get ignored, you get stuff like leaded gasoline, cigarettes, and asbestos being everywhere, the Irish potato famine, the dissolution of the USSR, and the 2007 global financial crisis.

Even if AI doesn't do what it promises, the internet brings with it even more globalisation, cheap labour that undercuts any rich nation for jobs which can be done on a computer (which we've already seen examples of, not just with coding but also call centres). Even if Musk's promised about Optimus remain as unfulfilled as whichever version of full-self-driving just got made obsolete, a remote-controlled android does much the same for manual labour. And the internet does enable much weirder warfare: our governments can blame hacks on whoever they like, but there is often no dramatic photo of something burning as a result, just a diffuse degradation of economic performance from fully automated scams and blackmails.

And that's without any questions about demographic shift and who pays for the current generation's pensions when they retire, and if this has anything to do with free porn and the state of online dating apps. And without personalised propaganda. Without your home surveillance system (or robot vacuum cleaner) being turned against you by hacks only possible from cheap ubiquitous internet. Without any questions about if doomscrolling does or doesn't induce psychological problems, if sexual deepfakes are worse than schoolyard rumours, or if AI is sopping kids from learning as cheating is easier.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#66

> VPNs are essential privacy tools Does Mozilla not understand that this is the exact reason why the UK wants to forbid them?

"privacy tools" doesn't sound strong enough. "tools to bypass censorship of the future fascist government" sound better, though longer

I always remember a video snippet of some meeting in US, some chinese looking woman says something like "Mao took our guns and killed us all, I'm never giving up my rifle". Some politician reminds her that they live in the democracy. She asks him something like "can you guarantee me that in 20 years it will still be a democracy", which he admits he can't

found the video https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/1c13kkz/survivor_...

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s funny, I wonder if they might remove it since it is a common way for people to circumvent the ID requirement laws for certain sites.

They probably should at least update it -- I don't think a government should recommend free VPN services. Too many of them are a form of botnet, malware, ddos, etc.

Main source of residential ip's you can "rent"?

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#68
post #57

I have seen some of the inside of this and it's not quite as clear cut. One side of this is driven by a bunch of not too reputable think tanks behind the scenes who persuaded a couple of fringe academics to agree with them and push for it via the civil service. The government is taking bad, paid for advice. I don't know what the agenda is there but there is one and I reckon it's commercial. Probably a consortium of b…

Bullshit. GCHQ loves new ways to spy. Being able to harvest all traffic is their dream. I’m sure they already do harvest it all.

If they cared about privacy and security they wouldn’t be [redacted].

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this presentation disingenuous? The act is called the "Online safety act" and the quote isn't about the "regulation" in its entirety but about what constitutes a "Category 1" service. Described in an official explainer, meant for the public, as "Large user-to-user services" under the heading of "Adults will have more control over the content they see"[1]. It's not clear to me that this is some nefarious underha…

This presentation seems entirely reasonable for the purposes of observing the stated goals, which differ from the purported goals. The act is being pitched as a means of "protecting children", which is also the mechanism making it harder for people to argue against it. It is entirely reasonable for people to observe that in practice the government is intending to use it to control online discourse.

The part of the act they are talking about seems to be concerned with content recommendation systems, not proof of age.

The original framing of the quote in that blue sky thread is highly misleading as a result.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#70
post #57

I have seen some of the inside of this and it's not quite as clear cut. One side of this is driven by a bunch of not too reputable think tanks behind the scenes who persuaded a couple of fringe academics to agree with them and push for it via the civil service. The government is taking bad, paid for advice. I don't know what the agenda is there but there is one and I reckon it's commercial. Probably a consortium of b…

This comment is a little unclear. However no matter what the government or security services want, they won't be able to stop people who want to use VPN or End to end encryption. Nothing would ever change in that regard.

The technology bit doesn't really matter though.

The real problem is that the legislation would bring the power to prosecute people who use them or use it against them.

The security services aren't having any of that shit because it puts their position at risk both from the front-facing side and recommendations and guidance issued and from their own operations.

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