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Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

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Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#61

Post by asdff »

filoleg wrote: post #46
mortenjorck wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that the Waymo data model, though? They extensively pre-drive every new market, building dense volumetric maps of the entire service area before they begin service, so they essentially do have that database of every road (that they drive on).

Granted, I am not sure exactly how Waymo operates, but I thought that the extensive testing was mostly for legal reasons+just handling edge cases. I am saying this, because I noticed that they typically start with a low-tier restrictive permit to operate (with a rather small number of cars in the fleet). Then they run it for a year or two, iron out edge cases particular to a given city (e.g., climate particularities,…

They actually do significant mapping. Where it operates currently it is not unusual to see this. It will be a waymo with a human driver operating someplace not currently in the waymo zone and clearly not en route to any maintenance facility either. Stuff like windy canyon roads with no thru access anywhere that are currently gated away, you might see a waymo with a human today.

Waymo is not the only company making lidar maps right now either. I've seen UPS deliver trucks with retrofitted lidar scanners on the roof now. I've even seen this on a police car already, looked like a black rooftop industrial ventilator on a 2ft mast installed directly on the crown victoria roof.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#62

Post by jfyi »

giacomoforte wrote: post #54
alex1138 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About what

That you need world models to sensibly deploy "thinking" machines in the real world. Else they do stupid shit like drive straight into water. You can bruteforce some semblance of thinking by training on literally all knowledge that can be digitized but even that is proving to not be quite enough.

Like this?

https://waymo.com/blog/2026/02/the-waymo-world-model-a-new-f...

Or did you mean strictly in operation?

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#64

Post by rogerrogerr »

dawnerd wrote: post #50
xnx wrote: post #8

"recall" = applies software update

Recall makes for better headlines.

I really want car companies to just automate publishing “recalls” for every commit pushed to any car ever. Flood this broken term and force a distinction between “the airbags will literally explode and destroy your face” and “the radio volume is too quiet sometimes”

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#65

Post by tempaccount5050 »

amluto wrote: post #34
Animats wrote: post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

By a water sensor do you mean a sensor to detect the water level relative to the chassis? It seems like a very inexpensive downward-facing ultrasound sensor could work.

When you're going 35 mph and suddenly hit a 2 ft deep puddle (I've done this), that sensor isn't going to help at all.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#66

Post by nickthegreek »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #64
dawnerd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall makes for better headlines.

I really want car companies to just automate publishing “recalls” for every commit pushed to any car ever. Flood this broken term and force a distinction between “the airbags will literally explode and destroy your face” and “the radio volume is too quiet sometimes”

A "recall" is a specific regulated action. It is announced as a recall because that is what is legally required according to the NHTSA. There is no wiggle room here.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#67

Post by hawaiianbrah »

mmooss wrote: post #30
Animats wrote: post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

> frequently I've never made that mistake; I'm not aware of anyone I know doing it. I very rarely see it myself, except on news footage. Of course it happens some time somewhere but that says nothing about frequency. > That's a tough problem Not really. Don't drive where you don't know it's safe. Definitely don't drive into moving water - puddles only, and only if not too deep: I can usually figure it out based on th…

It’s definitely a thing humans do a lot in certain places. Perhaps where you live, it isn’t as much of an issue, so naturally you and nobody you know has encountered it.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#68

Post by flextheruler »

qwerpy wrote: post #52
flextheruler wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla cars are not capable of driving autonomously according to the company and regulators.

My dad doesn't care what the regulatory definition is, he just presses "Start Self-Driving" and off he goes.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-59736DF...

"Failure to follow all warnings and instructions can result in property damage, serious injury or death."

"Driver intervention may be required in certain situations, such as on narrow roads with oncoming cars, in construction zones, or while going through complex intersections."

"Always remember that Full Self-Driving (Supervised) (also known as Autosteer on City Streets) does not make Model S autonomous and requires a fully attentive driver who is ready to take immediate action at all times."

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#69

Post by hawaiianbrah »

foobazgt wrote: post #43
gib444 wrote: post #3

This is ok though because humans drive into flood waters too. Look, you can't make progress without getting your feet wet and then diving straight into the deep end.

Maybe you drive into flood waters, but I don't. That's not a difficult skill to pull off. We're still in the early days of self driving cars, and as much simulation and miles as they have, they're still constantly getting exposed to real world conditions that are new to them. The world is dynamic, so this will always remain true. It remains to be seen where we'll converge on capability, incident rate, and acceptance.

The world is dynamic, so sure, it will always be true in some technical sense. But I am confident that eventually we’ll have trained them on enough scenarios that novelty will have a smaller and smaller effect on their ability to safely navigate through the world.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#70

Post by rogerrogerr »

nickthegreek wrote: post #66
rogerrogerr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want car companies to just automate publishing “recalls” for every commit pushed to any car ever. Flood this broken term and force a distinction between “the airbags will literally explode and destroy your face” and “the radio volume is too quiet sometimes”

A "recall" is a specific regulated action. It is announced as a recall because that is what is legally required according to the NHTSA. There is no wiggle room here.

Yes, we need to change the rules to create a distinction. The meaning of “recall” in common understanding vs. industry has diverged, and it’s almost certainly causing car manufacturers to do suboptimal things to avoid having “recall” tied to their name in the press.
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