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Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

museum.eecs.yorku.ca

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Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#61

Post by cf100clunk »

jgon wrote: post #50
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man. I grew up in Edmonton area and didn't much care about whatever in central Canada, and only had a vague sense of it despite having done a trip across Canada with the family when I was 8. Of course "western alienation" talk was all around from right wing sorts but my family paid no attention to it anyways. Then I moved to Toronto in 1996 in the .com boom. I had spent plenty of time in Vancouver but living…

Respectfully, as an Albertan who still lives in Alberta, and who wants to remain a part of Canada I don't think that the persecution complex is 100% bullshit, and dismissals of it as such by eastern Canada only serve to reinforce it. Re: equalization, of course the massive economy of Ontario makes a big part of GDP, but the point of Alberta's importance is that its economy allows it to make an outsized impact compare…

> Alberta has been one of the most under-represented province in the federal government

Each time Albertans (I'm a 4th generation of that group) complain about lack of representation within federalism, I remind them of the many golden opportunities that came and went with their popularly elected and re-elected federal parties in power for long stretches of time, with Harper even representing an Alberta riding, yet here we are with complaints that rehash the same old, same old stuff. Nothing about federalism is ever good enough for them even after all those years of pro-AB feds in power.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#62

Post by dismalaf »

stackghost wrote: post #44
dismalaf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alberta does not "pay into" equalization payments. Provinces do not "send money to other provinces". That's simply not how the program works. You're being pedantic. Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. Splitting hairs over the precise "how" doesn't ch…

>Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. And you'd be incurring lots of new expenses like border controls, national security, etc. The last estimates I saw were that the total equalization payments attributable to Alberta were about a tenth of the cost of…

Since you don't seem to want to write in good faith here (or maybe you just don't understand, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), from the horse's mouth:

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal...

And federal transfers:

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal...

If you really don't understand why Alberta pays more per capita, it's simple. We have more net taxpayers paying more federal taxes per capita.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#63

Post by stackghost »

dismalaf wrote: post #62
stackghost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. And you'd be incurring lots of new expenses like border controls, national security, etc. The last estimates I saw were that the total equalization payments attributable to Alberta were about a tenth of the cost of…

Since you don't seem to want to write in good faith here (or maybe you just don't understand, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), from the horse's mouth: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... And federal transfers: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... If you really don't understand why Alberta pays more per capita, it's simple. We have more net taxpayers p…

From the link you posted:

>Provincial governments make no contributions to the Equalization program.

And:

>All Canadians are subject to the same federal income tax system and its progressive rate structure, regardless of where they live.

These both directly support my argument. I will make no further replies.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#64

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #39
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in terms of time zones. Toronto's time zone is Eastern Time, so it's in the East.

You need to think about just how long you'd be driving east from Toronto before you finally hit the Atlantic. (And not just the widening of the St Lawrence at Quebec City, but let's say... where the water is fully salty and tidal... which is apparently around Matane, directly north of New Brunswick). Like, 20 hours of driving. And then to get to e.g. Halifax or Sydney NS, which aren't even our furthest east points, a…

You're right. For the people settling this country, they were traveling west from Europe across the Atlantic, so the country is coded as to how far West you have to travel. Quebec would be "Middle Canada". Ontario should be Western Canada; Manitoba should be Westerner Canada; Saskatchewan should be West Westerner Canada; Alberta should be called Westerer Westerner Canada, and British Columbia should be Better-Come-From-The-Other-Side Canada.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#65

Post by dismalaf »

stackghost wrote: post #63
dismalaf wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don't seem to want to write in good faith here (or maybe you just don't understand, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), from the horse's mouth: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... And federal transfers: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... If you really don't understand why Alberta pays more per capita, it's simple. We have more net taxpayers p…

From the link you posted: >Provincial governments make no contributions to the Equalization program. And: >All Canadians are subject to the same federal income tax system and its progressive rate structure, regardless of where they live. These both directly support my argument. I will make no further replies.

Your argument is against a strawman of your own creation that you're using to hand-wave away the actual topic.

If equalization is of no net benefit to anyone why does it exist? And why not just let Alberta leave?

The two links explain it anyway, for observers, and show federal transfer payments by province and per capita.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#66

Post by cbsmith »

foofoo55 wrote: post #24
cf100clunk wrote: post #11

Sad that there is no mention or depiction of Canada's own magazine of that era, ''Electron''. It was commonly found alongside the big U.S. electronics periodicals like those shown here. Electron was a mainstay right up to the mid-1970s when it suddenly transitioned to ''Audio Scene Canada'', laden with glossy ads and a tight focus upon HiFi music products but no longer catering to the hobbyist or general electronics…

For a close second here's a 1985 issue of the TPUG Magazine [1], from the Toronto PET Users Group. I attended a few meetings of the Niagara Commodore Users Group and spent all of my paper-route and fruit-picking income on arcade games and my C64 system. [1] https://www.tpug.ca/tpug-media/tpugmag/TPUG_Issue_15_1985_Ju...

Wow. I remember the Toronto PET Users Group. That takes me back.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#67

Post by cf100clunk »

soperj wrote: post #49
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto is also a relatively short drive from Chicago. It's actually far more similar to Chicago than to coastal NYC. It is really geographically "midwest" by US standards, not "east" When I was in elementary school in Alberta in the 80s we called this "central Canada." And that's how I still think of it. But there's a growing trend especially in Alberta to call this "down east" which is in my mind a very political w…

We used to have bumper stickers that said "Let those eastern bastards freeze in the dark". Funny to mention this on an article referencing the PET.

That was former AB PM Ralph Klein's infamous quote.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#68

Post by jeromegv »

dismalaf wrote: post #42
stackghost wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alberta has a wealth fund. Since the 70s, yes, and it's minuscule because the oil companies socialize the risks and privatize the profits, less some token royalties. Norway's was established in the 90s and is multiple orders of magnitude larger, because they don't allow big oil to fuck them over. >The amount Alberta has sent in equalization payments would have allowed us to have a far larger wealth fund than Norway…

> Alberta does not "pay into" equalization payments. Provinces do not "send money to other provinces". That's simply not how the program works. You're being pedantic. Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. Splitting hairs over the precise "how" doesn't ch…

> If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta.

Yes. But you’d have to pay for your own border, army, customs, etc, etc.

By that logic every single province could separate, become a country, and then what? Is that supposed to be more cost efficient? Would the economy and free market between each province better? Would Alberta oil be worth the same price without having pipelines going through every province?

And then, why not have Calgary separate from Alberta. After all money from Calgary pays for roads in Edmonton and smaller towns. Surely we don’t want money leaving Calgary, if Calgary was independent, Calgary could keep its own money and not have their money “siphoned out”.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#69

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

jgon wrote: post #50
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man. I grew up in Edmonton area and didn't much care about whatever in central Canada, and only had a vague sense of it despite having done a trip across Canada with the family when I was 8. Of course "western alienation" talk was all around from right wing sorts but my family paid no attention to it anyways. Then I moved to Toronto in 1996 in the .com boom. I had spent plenty of time in Vancouver but living…

Respectfully, as an Albertan who still lives in Alberta, and who wants to remain a part of Canada I don't think that the persecution complex is 100% bullshit, and dismissals of it as such by eastern Canada only serve to reinforce it. Re: equalization, of course the massive economy of Ontario makes a big part of GDP, but the point of Alberta's importance is that its economy allows it to make an outsized impact compare…

Relevant:

https://thewalrus.ca/alberta-separatism-fuelled-by-russian-n...

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#70

Post by [deleted] »

stackghost wrote: post #44
dismalaf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alberta does not "pay into" equalization payments. Provinces do not "send money to other provinces". That's simply not how the program works. You're being pedantic. Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. Splitting hairs over the precise "how" doesn't ch…

>Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. And you'd be incurring lots of new expenses like border controls, national security, etc. The last estimates I saw were that the total equalization payments attributable to Alberta were about a tenth of the cost of…

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