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First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

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Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#61

Post by tokai »

gmueckl wrote: post #25
lukan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building of this tunnel will likely create way more CO2, than can be saved by providing a more direct route and avoiding ferries (german source ... and very critical of the project) https://www.nabu.de/umwelt-und-ressourcen/verkehr/verkehrsin... Personally I like the concept of having a more direct access to scandinavia and see lots of other positive long term effects.

I really hate how German environmental activists resort to hyperbole and alarmist language by default when voicing concerns. This only makes it harder for me to take them seriously. And then there is this tried and true tradition of commissioning studies with the sole intent to support a predefined viewpoint rather than taking an unbiased approach. This makes it so hard to trust any information when political argumen…

German environmental activists have always been like that. They also love to receive support from foreign state actors to harm Germany.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#62

Post by msandford »

lukan wrote: post #29
gmueckl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate how German environmental activists resort to hyperbole and alarmist language by default when voicing concerns. This only makes it harder for me to take them seriously. And then there is this tried and true tradition of commissioning studies with the sole intent to support a predefined viewpoint rather than taking an unbiased approach. This makes it so hard to trust any information when political argumen…

Agreed to that, but they are right with stating, that digging up so much ocean soil in a direct line might disrupt entire maritime ecosystems.

The tunnel will very likely be less disruptive to marine animals than ferry boats. During the construction yes it will be worse but 10 years after? The ecosystem will have forgotten the disruption and will have gained additional peace from reduced/eliminated ferries.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#63

Post by tokai »

lmm wrote: post #10
bobthepanda wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figure once you join them, you could also apply waterproofing to the outside as well, no?

Maybe. What would that look like, adding more gaskets on the outside? That sounds even harder to maintain since the only way to get access is diving.

The sections are laid in a trench and covered by sediment. There's not going to be any routine maintenance by divers.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#64

Post by tocs3 »

I worked for a company on a job in New York harbor surveying a 9ft diameter sewage tunnel that runs from Newark under Bayonne to New York Harbor (there is a vent near the little lighthouse you pass on the Staten Island Ferry). There was concern that some of the dredging would lighten the load over the tunnel and the tunnel would pop out of the ground.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#65

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

teekert wrote: post #48

Hmm, website owners can apparently mess with my settings and make their site "smooth scrolling". Ugh. It's like having a nightmare where I'm trying to scroll as hard as I can but I feel like I'm scrolling through mud. It actually feels like they have a speed limit to scrolling, I'm used to giving my MX Master 3S a big spin and being at the bottom of a page near instantly, here it takes time.

On my mobile device, it's like they've made the scrolling accelerated and slippy, as if it's on ice suddenly. It's very unpleasant.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#66

Post by Skwid »

teekert wrote: post #48

Hmm, website owners can apparently mess with my settings and make their site "smooth scrolling". Ugh. It's like having a nightmare where I'm trying to scroll as hard as I can but I feel like I'm scrolling through mud. It actually feels like they have a speed limit to scrolling, I'm used to giving my MX Master 3S a big spin and being at the bottom of a page near instantly, here it takes time.

If you disable javascript it scrolls normally. There's also no text, or images, but you can scroll past all the pretty background colours

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#67

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

This is very exciting if you live in the Copenhagen–Malmö area. Currently it takes 5 hours from Copenhagen to Hamburg, and 8 hours if you want to get to Berlin. With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours. Suddenly a weekend trip to Germany by train looks more practical. The train is very nice right now, but you need to set aside a day for travel, in both directions.

It's a shame that the legacy of the Cold War means that Hamburg is “closer” by rail than Berlin, even though if you look at a map you can see it shouldn't be. If they had built a tunnel to Rostock, things would have been different…

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#68

Post by lukan »

tokai wrote: post #61
gmueckl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate how German environmental activists resort to hyperbole and alarmist language by default when voicing concerns. This only makes it harder for me to take them seriously. And then there is this tried and true tradition of commissioning studies with the sole intent to support a predefined viewpoint rather than taking an unbiased approach. This makes it so hard to trust any information when political argumen…

German environmental activists have always been like that. They also love to receive support from foreign state actors to harm Germany.

They have been dogmatic, but the claim of being enemy agents would require a source for me.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#69

Post by tokai »

lukan wrote: post #68
tokai wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German environmental activists have always been like that. They also love to receive support from foreign state actors to harm Germany.

They have been dogmatic, but the claim of being enemy agents would require a source for me.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russia-funding-europe...

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00364R0010015...

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#70

Post by JHer »

Towaway69 wrote: post #34

I wonder what the relationship is between the word engineering in the sense used here and software engineering ? I am amazed how bad software engineering has become with constant updates of software because of “improvements” or because there has to be constant release cycle else the software is unmaintained or bad. While this kind of engineering is designed to be untouched for the next 15 to 30 years. Minimal mainten…

I will keep recommending Hillel Wayne's crossover project whenever this "Software engineering vs 'real' engineering" discussion pops up.

https://www.hillelwayne.com/tags/crossover-project/

I'm disappointed and jaded by the state of our craft like you. But I'm also very suspicious of claims that other disciplines are somehow these much more earnest, pristine, derived-from-first-principles things. It just doesn't fit my view of human nature.

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