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Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

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Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#61
Apparently, the shape of a peeled orange (a flattened sphere) is unrelated to a violin's f-holes. I had it in my mind that the S-shapes were similar for acoustic reasons.

Looking it up just now, it turns out that, "Modern physics research shows that the f-shape allows the instrument to push much more air than a traditional round hole, resulting in greater acoustic power and projection."

Just wanted to share in case someone else had that same bit of false knowledge in their head.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#62
post #33

> It produces sound based on the way the instrument, including its vibrating strings, physically interacts with the surrounding air. I suppose this is the innovative part. They're not simulating just the string, but also the fluid it's immersed in, which is a computationally hard problem. I made a vibrating string simulator in college for our Numerical Methods course and for quite a while I couldn't understand why it…

> Turns out rounding errors in floating point operations can propagate to a point where they produce this distinct, "metallic" sound. Reminds me of a Karplus-Strong synthesis implementation that produced a gorgeous guitar/mandolin sound, but only for delay durations that weren't simple ratios with the given sample rate. The simple-ratio durations would end up sounding like crude, attenuated periods of noise-- metalli…

That's really hellish, considering 44.1k is divisible by numbers 1-10 and more.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#64
post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

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Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#65
post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

Every physical model has its strengths and weaknesses. In this case you're correct that no emphasis has been put on the human-instrument coupling, but they've worked harder than usual on the air/instrument coupling which makes sense givwn their goal of helping violin makers. However there are plenty of research work on physical modeling between human and instrument (Serafin, Woodhouse, Chaigne etc from 1-2 decades ago) esp for violin. For string plucking & striking specifically, the coupling is modeled in a few commercial products (Pianoteq is a popular one) [disclaimer: I used to sell a guitar software doing this as well and met some of these acoustics experts a long time ago - these were fun times going down the rabbit hole of physical modeling]

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also not the case. There have been some really accurate physically-modeled instruments for at least 20 years. Also, aschkually, a violin is on the "easier" end of making it sound realistic. It's one of the "tutorial" models you go through when you start learning about this (resonators + reverb get you 80% there). Much harder to do any plucking sound (guitar, piano), and much much harder to model percussions ac…

Do you know if there has been any progress on conical-bore brass? From what I recall (I did some graduate work in instrument modeling in the late 2000s) reed instruments could be modeled convincingly, but the feedback oscillator with the lip buzzing was very difficult to model.

There's eg https://summit.sfu.ca/item/11130 from a Tamara Smyth and Frederick Scott; Google scholar shows some citations but not necessarily conical brass in particular. That link is about trombones, so also not conical. (I read that and tried to implement some stuff in it, see https://nuchi.github.io/trombone/ for a browser-based playable version.)

Conical and cylindrical bores definitely differ but I don't see why they'd be different specifically with respect to the lip interaction, can you say more about that part?

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out rounding errors in floating point operations can propagate to a point where they produce this distinct, "metallic" sound. Reminds me of a Karplus-Strong synthesis implementation that produced a gorgeous guitar/mandolin sound, but only for delay durations that weren't simple ratios with the given sample rate. The simple-ratio durations would end up sounding like crude, attenuated periods of noise-- metalli…

That's really hellish, considering 44.1k is divisible by numbers 1-10 and more.

Now that I think of it, the problem may have been independent of the sample rate. It may have just been all periods that were integers. So A440 sounded like a guitar string because it's a period of about 2.72ms. But at 1000Hz you're suddenly transported to a sound-effect from a 1970s episode of Dr. Who.
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