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Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

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Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#61

Post by opan »

peyton wrote: post #40
dismalaf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are numbers everything? Are sardines more evolved than whales? Anyhow, the traditional view is that Neanderthals were brutes who were actually out-competed and killed off by Sapiens. The more realistic view considering the evidence is that Neanderthals were much closer to Sapiens, equally or even more sophisticated, but less numerous, and thus their contribution to our DNA is smaller than Sapiens. But do keep in mind…

I think especially given TFA and our inferred history with them that they were terrifying apex predators who occasionally raped human women. I don’t much believe the friendly smiling museum depictions that have lately become fashionable. Their eyes alone would have made them something you didn’t want to run into at night.

Are there any good illustrations showing how much bigger their eyes were compared to modern humans? Is it really significant? I'm having trouble finding anything that makes it clear.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#62

Post by behringer »

sokoloff wrote: post #3
irdc wrote: post #2

This pairs nicely with the recent publications around Neanderthal cognitive abilities and how there likely similar to ours ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/04/neanderthal-brains-m... ).

I find things like that hard to perfectly square with observations like the Flynn Effect (“the substantial and long-sustained increase in both fluid and crystallized intelligence test scores that were measured in many parts of the world over the 20th century”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Are you suggesting our brains are getting better? I find it far more likely that our improved education techniques and our skyrocketing access to information as being the cause.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#64

Post by peacebeard »

egeozcan wrote: post #58
peacebeard wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common misconception, more likely outcompeted

Doesn't outcompete include murder? We are a very tribal species, and the history is full of genocides and mass murders, so from a very uneducated viewpoint, this sounds reasonable. If not that, is it that we depleted the resources they depended on?

Great question. When people say outcompete it can certainly include violence but we’re talking about populations spread over continents over thousands of years. Factors like technology, fertility, adaptability, etc. are more what people mean when they said outcompete.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#65

Post by dyauspitr »

echelon wrote: post #7
sokoloff wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find things like that hard to perfectly square with observations like the Flynn Effect (“the substantial and long-sustained increase in both fluid and crystallized intelligence test scores that were measured in many parts of the world over the 20th century”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Firstly, this is completely orthogonal. But it's also improper reasoning. If Neanderthal had bigger brains (they did) or had different cognitive abilities, there's a chance they were baseline smarter than homo sapiens at the time. Being perhaps a little smarter doesn't mean you win the evolutionary game. There are so many factors at play.

But all their tools are rudimentary, their rituals infrequent compared to sapiens.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#66

Post by snthpy »

xp84 wrote: post #34

> the tip of the proverbial ice-berg of Neanderthal impact on herbivore populations, especially on slowly-reproducing taxa, could have been substantial during the Last Interglacial.’ translation: the Neanderthals probably completely wiped out a ton of the species of big animals that once existed in these regions. Homo sapiens isn’t the only hominid to do that…

Yeah like the rhinos and elephants that I didn't know you used to get in that area. Maybe they were too efficient and that's what limited their proliferation when they hit resource limits?

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#67

Post by nomilk »

The article mentions "rendering fat (from bones)" many times, but doesn't say how neanderthals actually did it? My best guess is they broke the bones into many little pieces, threw them in a fire, and waited for the fire to extinguish and cool, thus producing hardened (rendered) fat.

Feels like the most interesting part of the article was omitted!

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#69

Post by deafpolygon »

nomilk wrote: post #67

The article mentions "rendering fat (from bones)" many times, but doesn't say how neanderthals actually did it? My best guess is they broke the bones into many little pieces, threw them in a fire, and waited for the fire to extinguish and cool, thus producing hardened (rendered) fat. Feels like the most interesting part of the article was omitted!

It's in there.

> At this location, researchers found that Neanderthals not only broke bones to extract marrow but also crushed large mammal bones into tens of thousands of fragments to render calorie-rich bone grease through heating them in water.

Re: Neanderthals ran 'fat factories' 125k years ago (2025)

#70

Post by nomilk »

deafpolygon wrote: post #69
nomilk wrote: post #67

The article mentions "rendering fat (from bones)" many times, but doesn't say how neanderthals actually did it? My best guess is they broke the bones into many little pieces, threw them in a fire, and waited for the fire to extinguish and cool, thus producing hardened (rendered) fat. Feels like the most interesting part of the article was omitted!

It's in there. > At this location, researchers found that Neanderthals not only broke bones to extract marrow but also crushed large mammal bones into tens of thousands of fragments to render calorie-rich bone grease through heating them in water.

AFAIK Neanderthals didn't have clay pots - how would they hold the water to heat it and put the bone pieces in?

EDIT: I asked claude and it doesn't know for sure but guessed "stone boiling into an organic container — animal stomach, hide, or a bark vessel — remains the most plausible explanation for how they heated the water."

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