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Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

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Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#61

Post by wildzzz »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #40
arjie wrote: post #17

I always wonder about these production numbers in the military. The US has a large military complex and Germany is an industrial power and North Korea is a small military autocracy suffering from raw material shortages, but Googling around I see[0]: > The expert also said that the North’s annual production estimate of 2 million 152-millimeter artillery shells is premised on peacetime manufacturing rates. But here Ger…

The US doesn't use that much artillery as a matter of tactics. A significant portion of their capacity exists to support other countries. Artillery is suited for combat with clear lines of confrontation. US doctrine actively tilts the battlefield so that these lines don't form, which plays to their strengths.

Ukraine is an excellent reminder that trench warfare sucks and is a manpower and resource drain for both sides. One guy in a fighter jet is probably 1000000x more effective than a guy in a trench. One guided munition has the capability to decapitate an entire government.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#62

Post by noosphr »

alex43578 wrote: post #39
varispeed wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it puzzling why they won't pivot to industries that actually matter like making competition to Micron or Samsung and manufacture RAM at scale. Amping up military production is basically a reaction to certain countries electing maniacal pedos as presidents instead of jailing them.

Precision manufacturing has been Germany’s thing for a while, but semiconductors is a completely different skill set. Making a car and tank has way more in common than making a car and a CPU.

And you won't get electric tanks for many decades. Where else could you hawk ICE at a premium without environmental regulations?

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#63

Post by tardedmeme »

walrus01 wrote: post #34
inquirerGeneral wrote: post #10

[flagged]

The actual risks of modern day Germany going on a hegemonic rampage across Europe are extremely low. Their interests these days are much more aligned with maintaining proper democratic institutions, the EU, and being a voice for the free non-russia-aligned world.

And Israel. Don't forget, Merkel and Scholz both said the protection of Israel is Germany's reason to exist (Staatsräson).

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#64

Post by magicalhippo »

lopsotronic wrote: post #41
tristanj wrote: post #3

Germany is producing weapons to fight the last war. WWIII will be fought with drones, not artillery. They should invest part of this money into becoming the leader in drone manufacturing, not this. Since it's Germany, the money for this manufacturing ramp-up was probably allocated around 2023-2024, when older artillery was needed and before drone superiority was obvious. So maybe this is the expected outcome. If the…

It's going to be both, and it's because of physics. At this moment, the best way to put kinetic energy into an enemy is sticking some quantity of explosive on them. You have a few ways of going about this. Two we consider today: 1) a chemical charge launches a block of explosive ballistically at a closing range of mach 2-5, 2) a complex assembly of plastic/rare earths/silicon/PCBAs flies over to the enemy at somewher…

But artillery only has a short range, less than 50-60km. Ukraina is bombing trucks with FPV drones at that range now.

So you'd need serious anti-drone capabilities to get the artillery close enough, and good luck if you have it sitting around deployed for any lenghth of time.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#65

Post by booleandilemma »

wildzzz wrote: post #61
jandrewrogers wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't use that much artillery as a matter of tactics. A significant portion of their capacity exists to support other countries. Artillery is suited for combat with clear lines of confrontation. US doctrine actively tilts the battlefield so that these lines don't form, which plays to their strengths.

Ukraine is an excellent reminder that trench warfare sucks and is a manpower and resource drain for both sides. One guy in a fighter jet is probably 1000000x more effective than a guy in a trench. One guided munition has the capability to decapitate an entire government.

Unless it's the government of Iran, apparently.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#66

Post by cynicalsecurity »

bitvvip wrote: post #46
heyheyhouhou wrote: post #23

German industry is changing a lot loosing against China, so they have been moving to war related stuff for the past years. Personally, I know a bunch of people who were offered get transferred from VW to a military drone company. On one side I understand that manufacturing a lot of weapons could be somehow a protection for the future, but also Germany provides a lot of ammunition to Israel that is killing thousands o…

This is a crazy world. Everyone should stay away from war

Good luck staying away from war when someone else decides to attack you.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#67

Post by BjoernKW »

heyheyhouhou wrote: post #23

German industry is changing a lot loosing against China, so they have been moving to war related stuff for the past years. Personally, I know a bunch of people who were offered get transferred from VW to a military drone company. On one side I understand that manufacturing a lot of weapons could be somehow a protection for the future, but also Germany provides a lot of ammunition to Israel that is killing thousands o…

[flagged]

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#68

Post by mrits »

booleandilemma wrote: post #65
wildzzz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is an excellent reminder that trench warfare sucks and is a manpower and resource drain for both sides. One guy in a fighter jet is probably 1000000x more effective than a guy in a trench. One guided munition has the capability to decapitate an entire government.

Unless it's the government of Iran, apparently.

Are you referring to the new government Iran that took over after their leadership has been removed?

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#69

Post by [deleted] »

BjoernKW wrote: post #67
heyheyhouhou wrote: post #23

German industry is changing a lot loosing against China, so they have been moving to war related stuff for the past years. Personally, I know a bunch of people who were offered get transferred from VW to a military drone company. On one side I understand that manufacturing a lot of weapons could be somehow a protection for the future, but also Germany provides a lot of ammunition to Israel that is killing thousands o…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#70

Post by dreamlayers »

walrus01 wrote: post #34
inquirerGeneral wrote: post #10

[flagged]

The actual risks of modern day Germany going on a hegemonic rampage across Europe are extremely low. Their interests these days are much more aligned with maintaining proper democratic institutions, the EU, and being a voice for the free non-russia-aligned world.

I view World War 2 as Nazis harnessing discontent in Germany to motivate Germans to fight a war. So, the main risk I see is discontent building up again. What about people who can't have a good future because of the industrial decline of Germany?
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