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Maladaptive Frugality

herbertlui.net

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#61

Post by solatic »

The most helpful tool here, I've found, is maintaining a personal finances spreadsheet.

It's one thing, without a spreadsheet, to have the emotion of "I'm not going to have enough and I need to save more to make sure I have enough." I'd argue it's even evolutionary; we want to make sure we have enough to get through the winter we know is coming.

It's quite another when your spreadsheet shows you saved X, your monthly cost of living is Y, and therefore you have enough money saved, even if your income went to zero and you made no changes to your lifestyle, to last you for Z years. Being able to take YouTube University rule-of-thumb advice like "of your take-home pay, use 65% for necessities, 15% for long-term savings, 20% for enjoyment" and seeing how much money that is per month for you in your personal circumstances, along with rules of thumb on things like what ratio you should have achieved by which age on net worth-to-income ratio (1x by 30, 2x by 35, 3x by 40, etc.) and seeing what your personal actual ratio is, to get a sense of benchmarking yourself.

I mean, the influencers could be totally full of shit, but it doesn't matter. Getting actual numbers for where you are, plus getting "generic" advice that you know wasn't directed at you personally, and seeing how those numbers make you feel, can do a lot to either tell you "you don't need to be so frugal anymore" or "yep, your emotions are totally justified, keep saving".

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#62

Post by brailsafe »

petesergeant wrote: post #41
freetime2 wrote: post #5

For years I did this with the thermostat - something I learned from my father who always kept the house under 65F (18C) in Winter. I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it even led to arguments with my spouse early in our marriage when I would enter a room and find the thermostat set to a balmy 70F. Eventually I just sat down, looked at how much it costs keep the house a few degrees warmer in winter, and realized we could af…

I’m always colder in my mother’s house in Scotland (-5°C on cold days) than I am at my MIL’s house in the frozen Canadian wastelands (-40°C/F on cold days), because my mother will play games with thermostat to save money, where my MIL would simply die of exposure if the heating wasn’t on consistently for 6 months of the year.

There's also a very different type of cold close to the water. -40C will dry out your skin and make it feel like it's burning, but -5C in Scotland or on one of the Gulf Islands near Vancouver will make your bones feel frozen without good insulation.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#63

Post by freetime2 »

chromacity wrote: post #47
freetime2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits. My mother, for ex…

I think what you're attributing to frugality might be a more a matter of age? Many older folks are just wary of change. I'm not that old, but every time I upgrade my PC or phone, some of my workflows break and I need to pointlessly re-learn things I'd rather not re-learn. UI buttons get moved around, icons change, some settings are removed and others are added... this was exciting the first ten or twenty times, but i…

Possibly there’s an element to this. The iPhone SE still has the home button, which may have been a factor when she bought it. And my father was a bit put off by some of the bells and whistles on luxury cars.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#64

Post by brailsafe »

solatic wrote: post #61

The most helpful tool here, I've found, is maintaining a personal finances spreadsheet. It's one thing, without a spreadsheet, to have the emotion of "I'm not going to have enough and I need to save more to make sure I have enough." I'd argue it's even evolutionary; we want to make sure we have enough to get through the winter we know is coming. It's quite another when your spreadsheet shows you saved X, your monthly…

I need to get into building a PF spreadsheet and getting things in better order, but fwiw the way I sometimes frame the question of whether or not it's "okay" for me to buy something is 1) Will spending the money compromise or help my ability to pursue something else I want to do, based on the price and utility, 2) Could I buy 20 of them? Even better if I could buy 20 without tangibly hurting my wallet.

If you can buy 20, 1 is probably fine, don't stress too much.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#65

Post by kjellsbells »

brailsafe wrote: post #62
petesergeant wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always colder in my mother’s house in Scotland (-5°C on cold days) than I am at my MIL’s house in the frozen Canadian wastelands (-40°C/F on cold days), because my mother will play games with thermostat to save money, where my MIL would simply die of exposure if the heating wasn’t on consistently for 6 months of the year.

There's also a very different type of cold close to the water. -40C will dry out your skin and make it feel like it's burning, but -5C in Scotland or on one of the Gulf Islands near Vancouver will make your bones feel frozen without good insulation.

You know those Christmas cards that show a frosty twinkly white treescape? That climate will kill you even at -5C.

People die on Ben Nevis every few years because they think its not that cold. But Scottish cold in that part of the world is brutal, there's so much moisture in the air that freezes if you get wet and cant quickly get dry you will die fast.

Still, it's a beautiful part of the country.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#66

Post by wiseowise »

freetime2 wrote: post #59
normie3000 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree your mother should get a new phone with a big screen, but what qualifies as a luxury car? There are Toyotas that cost 6 figures USD.

I think he was considering a Lexus RX. I doubt he even looked at BMW, Mercedes, etc (not really his style). His Toyota was probably under $40k. This was back when cars were quite a bit less expensive than now. Nice car for sure, but the Lexus probably would have been a bit more refined.

How old is your old man?

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#67

Post by yarekt »

komali2 wrote: post #18

> I plan to have fun spending my money in the future, so it’s time to start practicing now. The most optimal thing to do in our world is to pick an age, say, 60, and until your 60th birthday, maximize your suffering via frugality to just under the tolerable limit so as to maximize your potential for compound interest. This leaves you with the most freedom and opportunity during the most fun part of your life, when yo…

Jesus no, you could be dead or decrepit by 60. What’s wrong with finding happiness within your limits all the time?

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#68

Post by jimbob45 »

chromacity wrote: post #4

Most people in the US are pulled into living on credit straight out of school. You get a student loan, then a car loan, then a credit card, then a mortgage. You finance vacations, appliances, kitchen remodels, smartphones - mostly to keep up with friends and coworkers who finance their lifestyles too. A lot of people are in non-stop debt from the age of 18 to 55, if not longer. By most estimates, only about 10-20% of…

Having a credit card is like having a video game passive that makes everything permanently 2% cheaper. Everything should be put on a credit card for that discount as well as fraud protection provided you are disciplined enough to never ever ever ever ever ever carry a balance.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#69

Post by kashunstva »

freetime2 wrote: post #39
chromacity wrote: post #4

Most people in the US are pulled into living on credit straight out of school. You get a student loan, then a car loan, then a credit card, then a mortgage. You finance vacations, appliances, kitchen remodels, smartphones - mostly to keep up with friends and coworkers who finance their lifestyles too. A lot of people are in non-stop debt from the age of 18 to 55, if not longer. By most estimates, only about 10-20% of…

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits. My mother, for ex…

My own parents are in their late 90’s. Because they grew up in the wake of the Great Depression, I always assumed their extreme frugality was a function of the economic distress in their formative years. They also properly accounted for the fact that old-age care is very expensive. Parenthetically, most do not seem to anticipate that accelerated burn rate near the EOL. It’s also a phase whose duration is hard to predict.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#70

Post by littlexsparkee »

pornel wrote: post #33

This is very culture-specific. I've seen this in Poland. Under USSR rule frugality has been necessary to survive, but it left a lot of people forever stuck in that mindset, long after things got better. I know people who have a fortune in the bank, but live like they're broke, because they're afraid to spend anything from a "rainy day fund" even on rainy days.

My parents and grandparents lived under scarcity during Soviet (satellite) rule, grandma would can food and store well past best by, save plastic bags and various knickknacks, resisted spending on herself even as she bought us gifts when we came to visit. I think the contrast to US excess stuck with me and I always lived leaner (feeling that possessions own you and your time), though far from her frugality.
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